Wire-O vs perfect binding

[ktinkel]

I may be working on a book that has been produced with a Wire-O binding in its first 4 editions. The page count increases with each edition, and they are having problems with pages tearing out at the binding edge — especially since they switched from two-side coated stock to 20-pound offset.

I suggested perfect binding and use of book paper, and they are considering it. (Probably means finding a different printer, getting the job re-quoted, etc.)

Their concern about perfect binding is that the spreads do not open well. I find that to be true with some perfect-bound books but not all. Does anyone know how to spec the binding so that the book opens fairly easily without pages falling out?

[PeterArnel]

Kathleen
As Usual it depends what its like and how many pages
Spiral instead of Wiro sometimes helps as does larger holes for the wiro
Spreads sort of work with wiro as long as u accept the gap in between .
Perfect binding where u allow 3mm in the backs to mill off always suffers when users break the back.
Slot or Burst Binding is a compromise -no allowance is allowed in the spine - but when you fold the section a slot about 2 mill wide (imm each side) and 10 mill along the spine is cut every 13 mills down the spine and when bound glue is forced into the slots - pages dont fall out. Cross overs still a problem
The other option may be section sewn with a drawn on cover. Sounds expensive but you may be surprised
Peter

[ktinkel]

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

As Usual it depends what its like and how many pages

About 256.

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Spiral instead of Wiro sometimes helps as does larger holes for the wiro

I have read that spiral wire is more durable than the two-wire Wire-O that they have been using. With either of those, would it help to use slightly larger binding spines so that the little edge next to the holes would help? Or would there be more shifting around that might also tear the paper?

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Spreads sort of work with wiro as long as u accept the gap in between

This is all text, and they have no objection to the gap.

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Perfect binding where u allow 3mm in the backs to mill off always suffers when users break the back.

What about tape-bound 4-page (single-sheet) signatures? That seems durable, though more expensive than the wire bindings.

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Slot or Burst Binding is a compromise - no allowance is allowed in the spine - but when you fold the section a slot about 2 mill wide (imm each side) and 10 mill along the spine is cut every 13 mills down the spine and when bound glue is forced into the slots - pages dont fall out.

Haven’t heard of this. Expensive?

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

The other option may be section sewn with a drawn on cover. Sounds expensive but you may be surprised.

Not sure I know what a drawn on cover is. How would this compare in price to the other options?

Are book papers generally sturdier than offset sheets when it comes to wire bindings?

[PeterArnel]

Kathleen let me get in the office tomorrow and I can give u better advice .
Do you just wiro or half Canadian bind
and what is the qty
Peter

[PeterArnel]

Kathleen I need to know how you are printing as well - because if u are printing it digtally then the onbly other solution is really perfect Binding
Peter

[ktinkel]

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Kathleen I need to know how you are printing as well - because if u are printing it digtally then the onbly other solution is really perfect Binding.

Doubt it. InDesign to PDF to ?? to press, far as I know. Not sure of the press, but if they have been using a trade printer with a small two-color press (as I suspect), changing the binding method and possibly the signature size might call for a bigger press (and probably a different printer).

Which is why I might not push them to abandon the wire binding (maybe suggest they look at spiral, though).

[ktinkel]

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Kathleen let me get in the office tomorrow and I can give u better advice.
Do you just wiro or half Canadian bind
and what is the qty

Thanks. I have no idea what “half Canadian bind” is. This looks like ordinary 2-wire binding to my largely unformed eyes.

Not sure of quantity, but think someone said 5 or 10 thousand.

[PeterArnel]

Kathleen
First its best to stay with the wiro option - if u can tell me the gsm of the paper and the number of leaves - I will look tomorrow and see what size wiro should be used
Peter

[ktinkel]

Originally Posted by PeterArnel

Kathleen
First its best to stay with the wiro option - if u can tell me the gsm of the paper and the number of leaves - I will look tomorrow and see what size wiro should be used

The number of leaves would probably be 80 or so (they are talking about adding approximately 20 pages to a 144-page book that has 5 blank pages), but who trusts “approximately” at this phase (the copy has not been written).

As for the weight of the paper, that is one of the things to be decided. They have been using ordinary 20# offset; I am inclined to recommend 50# or 60# (74 or 89 gsm) text paper, vellum finish (depending on strength and opacity).

They may also want 30% consumer recycled, which would affect the decision. So I guess it is too early to say.

Thanks for thinking about this.

[PeterArnel]

Kathleen
74 to 89gsm is copier paper and with a recycled content has no body at all - I wouldnt even think below say 115gsm . My simple suggestion is to ask the printer to do some dummies . Up the paper weight and also the wire coil diameter (not the wire diameter) this will allow the wiro holes to move away from the edge
Peter