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Old 06-04-2009, 01:01 PM   #1
ktinkel
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Default Are your clients like this?

It is a bit overstated, but this YouTube video does strike a chord: Vendor-client relationships.

   
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:38 AM   #2
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From what some designers have told me, it's not even exaggerated. It's simply realistic<G>

   
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:57 AM   #3
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From what some designers have told me, it's not even exaggerated. It's simply realistic<G>
I developed a strong preference against ever working for someone who referred to designers, illustrators, etc. as “creatives.” People who think that way seem especially likely to want something for nothing.

This group can include designers who ask an illustrator for sketches to help win a particular job. If the designer isn’t chosen, neither is the illustrator.

   
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:26 PM   #4
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>> I developed a strong preference against ever working for someone who referred to designers, illustrators, etc. as “creatives.” People who think that way seem especially likely to want something for nothing.

Agency account execs aka lunchpimps. <g>

I need a new set of buns 'cause I laughed mine off the first time I saw this.

These are the people that made me glad to get out of photography. Or at least made me not miss it near as much as I might've.

   
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Old 06-05-2009, 12:51 PM   #5
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Agency account execs aka lunchpimps. <g>.
Among others, yes.

   
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Old 06-06-2009, 05:45 AM   #6
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KT: If the designer isn’t chosen, neither is the illustrator.
Unfortunately, sales isn't a separate division when you're the artist. Business is making "on spec" as much the norm as possible -- a way to get concepts without either working or paying for them. '-}

   
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Old 06-06-2009, 08:38 AM   #7
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Unfortunately, sales isn't a separate division when you're the artist. Business is making "on spec" as much the norm as possible -- a way to get concepts without either working or paying for them. '-}
They have always tried, but it used to be more difficult. Once upon a time, designers and illustrators that I knew (mostly in/around NYC) belonged to the Graphic Artists Guild, read their annual guides and used the sample contracts; writers belonged to the National Writers Union; photographers to the Professional Photographers guilds; and other professional organizations and some design schools offered courses on how to protect your rights.

These organizations (some of them, anyway) still exist, but it has been a long time since younger artists, writers, and even photographers I meet mention them. When asked, most just say they do what they must do to survive in the business.

I wrote a long article about this trend in 1994 (just had to look it up). It included several examples of just the sort of things suggested in the video, and more. It ended with an appeal for a statement of Standard Trade Practices for designers (like those printed in 20% grey ink on the back of many printers’ invoices). Things may have gone too far for that, though (probably were too far gone when I wrote that piece).

AIGA always had a firm anti-spec-work policy. It recently revised that policy “in the context of changing dynamics in the marketplace.” They still encourage designers to avoid spec-work and mention the potential risks, but it is no longer a hard-and-fast rule.

Oh, well.

   
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Old 06-07-2009, 05:47 AM   #8
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KT: belonged to the Graphic Artists Guild, read their annual guides and used the sample contracts; writers belonged to the National Writers Union; photographers to the Professional Photographers guilds;
This country is in love with the Horatio Alger myth of success. Guilds, unions, and any other "collective" bargaining fell out of favor long ago. I have no clue what the business model will become, but currently, it's definitely in favor of the people who do the hiring.

   
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Old 06-07-2009, 07:48 AM   #9
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This country is in love with the Horatio Alger myth of success. Guilds, unions, and any other "collective" bargaining fell out of favor long ago. I have no clue what the business model will become, but currently, it's definitely in favor of the people who do the hiring.
The faith in Horatio Alger comes and goes. It departed with the Great Depression that framed my parents’ lives (along with Prohibition and a bunch of wars).

Perhaps it will happen again.

I would be content to see us give up on the tendency to race from one extreme to another, which seems to be the American approach to almost everything.

   
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Old 06-07-2009, 01:54 PM   #10
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Good lines from flusher times, for the freelancer, from a cameraman I used to work for... At least they might give us a laugh, now.

"Gee, Seymour, great to hear from you. The project sound really exciting, but it took a really long time to get a check out of your bookkeeper last time. What was it? Oh, yeah, 179 days. Tell you what. Just give me $20k cash up front, and I'll give you back what I don't use."

"Hey, John, what's up. Oh, THAT client? Tell you what. I'll work this time at triple my rate, and make it up to you next time, OK?"
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