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Old 11-09-2009, 09:27 AM   #1
gilly56
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Default InDesign 2-color output

I've just upgraded to CS4 and Snow Leopard on a Mac 8-core, and a 2-color job which I sent to offset print keeps RIP'ing to cmyk. My printer has never seen this before, and neither have I. When I check the info on the pdf it shows as 2-color; when I look at the grayscale images in photoshop they are grayscale (the colors are black and pms 350). The duotones in photoshop show up as duotones. I've been doing this for 20 years (although I was using Quark up until last year). I am stumped. The printer has run my files for about 5 years now and we've never seen this problem. I'd say it was his RIP, but he ran another file that he created in 2-color and it worked perfectly. He does have to convert my InDesign to an eps and send it through quark, because that what his RIP needs. Could that be the problem? Or are there some settings in InDesign that I should adjust?
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:55 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gilly56 View Post
He does have to convert my InDesign to an eps and send it through quark, because that what his RIP needs. Could that be the problem?
I should think so! Why on earth should he have to do this?
If you supplied it as a PDF, would he export that as EPS and run it through Quark......? Madness.

There's potential for re-separation when he exports the EPS from ID, and when he sends the PS from Quark.
What is his RIP? If it can't handle PostScript output from Adobe InDesign, then there's something frightening going on.

I would send him press-compliant PDFs, which are demonstrably duotones. Any problems are his and his curious setup's to deal with.
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Old 11-09-2009, 10:36 AM   #3
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Thanks - I did kind of wonder about that. It still doesn't really explain why it's just this file, though. I sent another one on Friday (much more simple) and it worked fine. Crazy.
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:42 AM   #4
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When my printers throw wobblies, I send them separated PDFs instead of compos - they can't argue with them!

   
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Old 11-10-2009, 10:46 AM   #5
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Oh, that's a good idea. Although he was more confused than defensive... ;-) I just sent another one to him today, created in exactly the same way, so I'm waiting to see what happens. Oh, the anticipation. (P.S. I'm from Southend.)
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Old 11-10-2009, 02:23 PM   #6
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Just anticipation? These problems would drive me to distraction.
If you'd like me to have a quick shufti at the problem PDF to see if I can find anything wrong in it, just email it over - I'll send you a PM with my address.

   
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Old 11-10-2009, 05:00 PM   #7
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Aha! That's very interesting. The problem is down to colour profiles, not your PDF, and probably not the printer's RIP (though he shouldn't be shoving the thing through Quark these days at all.)

I checked the separations in Acrobat Pro 9; when the output preview is set to U.S. Web Coated (SWOP) v2 the image separates correctly as black and Pan 350C, so I suspect that's the profile you used in Photoshop and InDesign. The usual ICC profile which printers use over 'ere these days is Europe ISO Coated FOGRA27 (which is the default for the Adobe Creative Suite) but with Aggrobrat set to that one, the background is, as you've found out, CMYK+Pan350 with the photos remaining pure black.

The easiest way to get the result you want would be to see if your printer chappie can set his workflow up to that SWOP profile. If that makes him suck the breath through his teeth and shake his head, then you'll need to set your Creative Suite programs to synchronise on FOGRA by selecting that profile in Bridge then checking that Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign are all using it. (Come to think of it, if the printer is going through Quark, he might want you to use Euroscale Coated v2 instead, so better ask him first.)

Oddly enough, I find Distiller works best if you don't set up colour management at all: edit the Press joboptions in Distiller, go to Color, then choose None for the Adobe Color Settings file and under Color Manglement Policies select Leave Color Unchanged. (One day, when I have nothing better to do, I might set the policies to Tag Everything and set the working space to FOGRA, but for now I find these settings seem to work best.)

If you're not using Distiller, but are exporting to PDF from InDesign, remember to select No Color Conversion under Output.

If all else fails, zip up the artwork, bung it over and I'll make comp and sep PDFs for you.

   
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Old 11-11-2009, 12:36 AM   #8
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Yet another case where colour "management" gets in the way.

For quality press work, I usually always remove all profiles, and just rely on the CMYK values.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:10 AM   #9
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Yes Ben, one of our printers does exactly that.

   
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:46 AM   #10
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Thanks so much for your help, guys. I really appreciate it. Robin, depending upon my conversation with the printer, I may take you up on your offer just so that I can see your settings, etc. on the comp and seps pdfs. Thanks again!
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