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Old 11-16-2007, 05:50 PM   #81
curveto
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That the security subsystem is asking you to authenticate over and over and over is a symptom (unfortunately an oft encountered symptom) of misconfiguration.


Go watch this msdn vidcast:

http://channel9.msdn.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=288259
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Old 11-17-2007, 12:18 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curveto View Post
That the security subsystem is asking you to authenticate over and over and over is a symptom (unfortunately an oft encountered symptom) of misconfiguration.


Go watch this msdn vidcast
Is there somewhere one can read about it? I really can't do anything with video - I need letters, optionally with diagrams, but at least letters.

   
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Old 11-17-2007, 06:45 PM   #83
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No. No place that I'm aware of... Actually, you might glean some info by reading the forums related to the vidcast (they are closely linked).

The video is a discussion with a program manager and architect of Windows UAC. There are a few take aways I got from it.

1) Historically, Windows users and software developers treated security as most folks do. That is, they shunned and ignored it. As a result, much of Windows itself and most applications that run on it don't play nice with the notion of user accounts. As a result, typical user configuration and expectation and LOTS of application behavior routinely want 100% control and thus UAC must prompt and prompt and prompt when they do something that seems innocuous but it potentially VERY dangerous (behavior). ...ever wonder why spyware and viruses are so prevalent?

OS X users went through the same change some years back (some still resist it).

2) Get used to the notion of logging in , separating storage (areas) into buckets (e.g., home directories, etc.) and "run as" for applications. Some day portions of a disk will be locked off for read only access (not unlike DEP does for memory today).

3) It'll take time to work through to a place where applications no longer what to own the box they run on and
understand they can't just do what they want.
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Old 11-18-2007, 04:34 PM   #84
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Mac OSX seems to get the authentication balance right: you only have to authenticate when you're doing something like installing an application. With Vista, it looks like you either have no authentication at all, or you have to confirm almost every little thing (including moving a file, for heaven's sake!)

   
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Old 11-19-2007, 09:46 AM   #85
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sudo's timeout behavior aside, OS X would freak out too (just like Vista's UAC) *if* the OS X application base did what is considered routine on Windows. The *real* problem isn't UAC, it's the third party apps that want to get away with murder (in a newly fortified world). Things will eventually settle out, just as they have with OS X. Just need time...
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Old 11-19-2007, 10:07 AM   #86
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Great example (file move with a billion UAC prompts)...

The thing your not realizing ('cause what you're approving isn't what you think you are approving) are things like:

a) the transparent loading of explorer shims when explorer tries to move something (e.g., google toolbar et al., iTunes/QuickTime related viewer/scanner shims, spyware, etc);

b) writing to admin or machine centric instead of user centric areas of the registry when doing so (very common, btw);

c) trying to alter system (or other admin only or better) directories/things.

If I have my Kaspersky (virus scanner/firewall/etc) set to anal retentive mode (in XP) it acts rather like UAC in telling me all of the billion or so potentially very bad things that are happening when I do something simple like move a file.

With OS X they blocked the Finder from seeing portions of bsd-oriented file space (thus the need to use Terminal for some things), they redirect some actions to "do what the user wants not what the user said," etc. For examples, Documents typically means ~/Documents not /Documents (even though on OS 9 it meant the opposite). If you try to move a file to/from /System/Library OS X will just say "no" or "heck no." On Windows lots of apps think they can do whatever they want to whatever they want. No more... On Vista you'll get a UAC prompt for each point of activity where you try to do something like that (or an app silently attempts to do so on your behalf).
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