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Old 08-05-2005, 10:43 AM   #1
gregkedro
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Default Word - PDF - PageMaker?

I saw one thread on this forum about this subject, but it still left me a little confused so please excuse a similar post.

My question is this: Can I "print" my MS Word (Win2kPro) file to a high-res, multi-paged PDF and import that into PageMaker in order to print books? Or, do I have to save each page as a separate PDF and import each PDF, then, page by page, into PageMaker?

Or, frankly, should I just be writing my books in PageMaker?

I am in the process of writing five or six books, all due out around the end of the year. There will be more on the way, around 2 or 4 a year. So, volume is a consideration in what I'm dealing with.

One of my books was small (150 pages) so I did a trial run with a printer. It was a nightmare, of course. They took my Word file, sent it to a graphic artist who did a copy-paste on each and every page, from Word to PageMaker. Then she had to reformat everything - bolds, italics, headers, footers, table of contents, et al. Three days she spent on a book of 150 pages. And I was not pleased with the errors.

Around December I am going to have 2 books to print that are between 500 and 700 pages long. There will also be another 150-page book and at least one more of between 300 and 500 pages. Can you imagine doing a copy-paste for all of that? And then going line by line from my original and resetting all the formats exactly like I had them?

That's my dilema.

My questions are above.

I've checked into getting PageMaker, and it looks fairly do-able via an eBay purchase (I qualify for educational versions). But, it would be so (!) much easier to simply print a high-res (600dpi? 1200? 2400?) PDF and import it into PageMaker.

But, does that require a separate PDF for each page? Or can PageMaker handle an import of a multiple page document, like a 700-page book?

If you gotten this far, thank you for your patience (I know, it's a long post). And, if you can help me with a little advice I'd greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.
-Greg K.
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:03 AM   #2
terrie
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I don't have a lot of experience in this area (hopefully you'll get additional replies from more experienced people) but!!!

1. Many printers will print directly from pdf's so that's the most straightforward option...

2. If you are going to take the time and effort to learn a page layout program, then of the Adobe products, InDesign is the way to go rather than PageMaker which is not only old but being phased out by Adobe--I don't believe Adobe intends to do any additional upgrades to Pagemaker.

There is a fairly steep learning curve to any page layout program but I think it's well worth the effort--this said by a die-hard WordPerfect user...'-}}.

You might also check out Ragtime for page layout, particularly Ragtime Solo which is a non-commercial version--you'd need to see if the work you are doing qualifies as non-commercial

Hope this helps...

Terrie
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:19 AM   #3
gregkedro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrie
2. If you are going to take the time and effort to learn a page layout program, then of the Adobe products, InDesign is the way to go rather than PageMaker which is not only old but being phased out by Adobe--I don't believe Adobe intends to do any additional upgrades to Pagemaker.
Yeah, I had thought of that. And it actually puts me between a rock and a hard place. I live in Costa Rica, so "underdevelopment" is an issue. That means: nobody here yet uses InDesign, so all the printing outfits I have contact with are basically PageMaker people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrie
You might also check out Ragtime for page layout, particularly Ragtime Solo which is a non-commercial version--you'd need to see if the work you are doing qualifies as non-commercial
Hm. Don't know what I'd used that for. Does this not do the same thing a PageMaker-type program would do? or InDesign?

Now, if you're an InDesign user, maybe you can answer a question for me. Can you import a multiple page PDF into InDesign? For example, my 500-page PDF of a book? Would it import it into 500 separate pages in InDesign? Or would it have to be imported in 500 separate PDFs?

Thanks for the help.
-Greg
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Old 08-05-2005, 11:41 AM   #4
Michael Rowley
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Greg:

You might consider Adobe's FrameMaker, which is very suitable for books (the latest Unicode Standard was done with it, all 1500 pages) and works well with Word. The latest version is expensive, but if you can get it for the educational price it might be worth it; the alternative would be an older version of FrameMaker, because you don't really need the newest version (unless you're into SGML).

   
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Old 08-05-2005, 12:03 PM   #5
gregkedro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Rowley
Greg:

You might consider Adobe's FrameMaker, which is very suitable for books (the latest Unicode Standard was done with it, all 1500 pages) and works well with Word. The latest version is expensive, but if you can get it for the educational price it might be worth it; the alternative would be an older version of FrameMaker, because you don't really need the newest version (unless you're into SGML).
I just read Adobe's site information on FrameMaker. Interesting to say the least. The only thing is that my printer told me just this week that he must (!) have either a QuarkXpress or a PageMaker file to make the negatives and / or plates to print from. So, I don't know if FrameMaker would give the end product that I need.

??

-Greg
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Old 08-08-2005, 12:36 PM   #6
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I see that you've gotten some excellent advice from KT and Michael. Glad you've gotten a line on PageMaker 7--sounds like the best way for you to go.

It really amazed me when I was first getting into page layout--started with PageMaker 6.5--that it was so lousy for typing in straight text. You'd probably do better typing in your text in Word with no real formatting and then as KT suggests, placing it in PageMaker.

You might try a test of saving a few pages of text in Word as a .rtf file type rather than a .doc and see if that works more easily for you--I'm a WordPerfect user myself so I can't advise you on the best way to approach Word files.

I wonder if your printer could work from a pdf created from your PageMaker files? It seems to me that a pdf would be easier to deal with, particularly as it relates to fonts (essentially, they are embedded in the pdf). You might do up a small file (say 4-5 pages) in PageMaker then distill it to create a pdf and have your printer see if that works ok.

Terrie
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Old 08-08-2005, 01:02 PM   #7
gregkedro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrie
I wonder if your printer could work from a pdf created from your PageMaker files? It seems to me that a pdf would be easier to deal with, particularly as it relates to fonts (essentially, they are embedded in the pdf). You might do up a small file (say 4-5 pages) in PageMaker then distill it to create a pdf and have your printer see if that works ok.
Thanks, Terrie. It looks like I have an appointment this week with the graphic artist that my printer used to format my latest book in PageMaker. That's how this whole confused mess of mine started - I heard they reformatted every page and every line of my book in PageMaker and I didn't understand why. So, hopefully Wednesday when I sit down with Samy the graphic artist, she will be able to explain to me why what where when how... and if a PDF will work.

Actually, the idea with a PDF is not to create it with PageMaker, but rather with Word. I have a friend in the States who runs a printing business and he says all of his clients give him PDFs. From there, if I understood him right, they go right into InDesign (import the PDF). So, I'm wondering why I couldn't just format my page size in Word to "fit" the size we need in PageMaker. When I'm finished with a book, I create a PDF of the whole thing and my graphic artist imports it into PageMaker (each page of the PDF carrying with it its own headers, footers, formats, fonts, etc.). If that would work, it would save loads of time and effort, and then no one else would be responsible for the mistakes but me (and there were problems with the book we just printed - "printers errors" that had to do with the plates and what-all made from the PageMaker copy).

Anyway, thanks for the advice. I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere with all of this.

-Greg
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Old 08-08-2005, 01:13 PM   #8
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The thing is that once you've created the pdf (from your Word document), I'm not sure I understand why it would need to go into PageMaker--it just seems like a lot of work for nothing...particularly if it has everything it's supposed to formatting-wise. I'm not sure why the printer can't just print the PDF file--there may be settings you need to establish for printing but your printer should be able to tell you what is needed and you just set the PDF options as appropriate.

Taking the Word generated PDF into PageMaker is *much* more work for Samy. It would be easier for her (him?) to place the Word file directly into PageMaker and format from there--basically you'd do "better" to work with what is essentially raw text in PageMaker formatting it as necessary within PageMaker.

I'm glad that we've been able to help...

Terrie
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Old 08-08-2005, 01:28 PM   #9
gregkedro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terrie
The thing is that once you've created the pdf (from your Word document), I'm not sure I understand why it would need to go into PageMaker
Well, we're either dealing with one of two things here. It could be just my ignorance of the whole process (which should clear up on Wednesday when I sit down with Samy - and, yep, she's a she not a he).

It could be also the difference in printing equipment that we have available down here in Costa Rica. We're still several years behind the States in the printing industry (but not software).

My understand was that in order to "go to print" with my books, the printer had to have either a QuarkXpress file or a PageMaker file. With that, they could make the "plates" or the "negatives" (depending on the number of books we are printing).

I don't know if they _can_ print directly from a PDF. I guess I'll find out on Wednesday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terrie
Taking the Word generated PDF into PageMaker is *much* more work for Samy.
Well, then, I guess I'm still confused on the whole thing. But, that's okay. Like I said, 10:00 a.m. Wednesday morning, I'm going to give Samy a headache with all my questions. :-)

Thanks!
-Greg
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Old 08-08-2005, 01:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregkedro
It could be also the difference in printing equipment that we have available down here in Costa Rica. We're still several years behind the States in the printing industry (but not software).

My understand was that in order to "go to print" with my books, the printer had to have either a QuarkXpress file or a PageMaker file. With that, they could make the "plates" or the "negatives" (depending on the number of books we are printing).

I don't know if they _can_ print directly from a PDF. I guess I'll find out on Wednesday.
If they really do have old RIPs, they may not be able (or want) to print directly from PDF. It is too bad, because the PDF is sort of partially RIPped when you make it, fonts can be embedded, and once proofed, embarrassing changes become unlikely.

Another option, and I know of no PostScript RIP that cannot handle this one: Once you have your pages the way you want them, create a PostScript print file (.ps). This contains all the information, including fonts, trim lines, halftones, and other technical data so that what you send is what you get. However, it also means you must know exactly how to set everything up.

Sending application files lets the printer control the details, but in that case you really must provide working copies of all your fonts with the files, or mayhem can break lose!

Now, be sweet to Samy, and she will be good to your job! :-)

   
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