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ElyseC
07-16-2005, 01:10 PM
Having just five minutes ago received my very own copy (courtesy of pre-order from Amazon) of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, I thought I'd post a big CONGRATS! to our own Brad Walrod, typesetter yet again of what will surely be a major best seller! Way to go, Brad!

Anything interesting about this typesetting project you are free to share? Enquiring minds and "Quibbler" readers want to know! :-)

BradW
07-17-2005, 11:57 AM
Having just five minutes ago received my very own copy (courtesy of pre-order from Amazon) of Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, I thought I'd post a big CONGRATS! to Brad, typesetter yet again of what will surely be a major best seller! Way to go, Brad!

Anything interesting about this typesetting project you are free to share? Enquiring minds and "Quibbler" readers want to know! :-)

Um, I've already been paid for it, which is always a good sign and one that I find interesting. ;-)

I haven't received my comp copies yet (one standard and one deluxe), but I ordered one from Amazon last December 22 and received it around 1 p.m. yesterday.

I *always* read just one chapter at bedtime so as to stretch it out, but I've been bad this weekend and have read up through the chapter whose title I knew, when I went in to do the castoff in January, would be my favorite: An Excess of Phlegm.

Brad

PeterArnel
07-17-2005, 01:53 PM
I am missing something - Brad -What do u do that is so special

Peter

BradW
07-17-2005, 02:01 PM
As Elyse said, I'm the typesetter of the American edition of the latest Harry Potter book, The Half-Blood Prince (as well as of the previous two books in the series).

As of the fourth book, the American and British editions are published simultaneously, which makes for an interesting exchange of changes, all on a deadline that has been announced well before I can get started on the production.

Brad

Michael Rowley
07-17-2005, 02:44 PM
Brad:

the American and British editions are published simultaneously

What, you mean Clays are not producing all the umpteen million copies? What a blow to the Suffolk economy.

I presume that the US edition has to be thoroughly Americanized; does the copy-editor do it all, or does she just give instructions such as, 'Change all -ise spellings to -ize'?

BradW
07-17-2005, 03:25 PM
The copyeditors take care of the -ise to ize and I convert the punctuation. I can get about 95% of it with translations, depending on how much Hagrid (and now Fleur) have to say, as those two tend to leave off the first (and sometimes last) letter of many words.

Most of the British phrases are left in to be figured out unless they would lead an American kid to completely misunderstand what was happening. In an article I read earlier this week, the U.S. publisher gave an example from book 5: The original text had Harry, et al, "revising" their exams.

Brit kids would understand that to mean reviewing their notes, whereas Americans would think that they were editing them. When queried, the author suggested (as nothing is changed without her permission) that we use "review" or "study" wherever "revise" appeared.

Brad

ElyseC
07-17-2005, 03:45 PM
Um, I've already been paid for it, which is always a good sign and one that I find interesting. ;-)

I haven't received my comp copies yet (one standard and one deluxe), but I ordered one from Amazon last December 22 and received it around 1 p.m. yesterday.

I *always* read just one chapter at bedtime so as to stretch it out, but I've been bad this weekend and have read up through the chapter whose title I knew, when I went in to do the castoff in January, would be my favorite: An Excess of Phlegm.The first book I restricted myself to one chapter a day/night, but was driving myself too nutty by it, so gave up and had a ball. Last night, for example, I'd spent the evening on the usual daily/family activities, things that needed attending, but would grab a page here and there while waiting for the kitchen timer or when son and hubby were engaged out of distracting earshot. I even fit in half a page while brushing my teeth. :-)

Am, as of half an hour ago, nearly half way through.

Found one page where you had to leave

BradW
07-17-2005, 04:34 PM
Found one page where you had to leave

Well, now you've got my attention. What exactly did I have to leave?

Brad

ElyseC
07-17-2005, 06:21 PM
Well, now you've got my attention. What exactly did I have to leave?Whoops. That was a goofed up forum visit.

Because paging the book had to be a challenge in places I was only going to give you a little non-serious jab about leaving a widow on one page I saw. Maybe there were others, but I'm too into the book to notice. I think I noticed the one I did, because I got interrupted right at that point. <g>

BradW
07-18-2005, 06:21 AM
If by widow you mean a partial word at the end of the paragraph, then I can assure you it was out of desperation (and intentional). There were a few places that I couldn't get a two-line paragraph to squeeze onto one line without making it unreadable, and refusing to break the last word would leave gargantuan word spaces on the first line.

Brad

Michael Rowley
07-18-2005, 07:59 AM
Brad:

The original text had Harry, et al, "revising" their exams

The term is 'revising for' examinations—I am not correcting you, but I don't know whether that was simply a slip or if the term was really strange to you. If the latter, it just goes to show that the simplest thing can throw people off the scent. Incidentally, 'revision' is often reading your textbook for the first time, encouraged by the impending exams; Ms Rowling probably knows that, as a former teacher, but doesn't want to say so in print: it's a book of fantasy, after all.

Thanks for that account, which shows that typographers really have to know the local 'rules'.

BradW
07-18-2005, 12:10 PM
Yes, I didn't quote the article well. The phrase in question referred to revising for the O.W.L. exams.

Brad

Michael Rowley
07-18-2005, 12:34 PM
Brad:

revising for the O.W.L. exams

A nice touch that: English & Welsh pupils would be revising for their 'O-Levels'. I'd guess 'O.W.L.' was supposed to mean the 'Ordinary Wizard Level'. American children wouldn't pick up the allusion, nor would many non-English children. Oh Lord! I suppose Harry & Co. will be staying on for their Advanced Level exams when they're 18 or so . . .

ElyseC
07-18-2005, 01:31 PM
If by widow you mean a partial word at the end of the paragraph, then I can assure you it was out of desperation (and intentional). There were a few places that I couldn't get a two-line paragraph to squeeze onto one line without making it unreadable, and refusing to break the last word would leave gargantuan word spaces on the first line.Well, no, I meant the first line of a paragraph left at the bottom of a page, the definition of 'widow' I found on line. (I have always been confused about what's an orphan and what's a widow, and, according to what I found when I tried looking it up on line, not everyone agrees on those definitions. <sigh>)

No, knowing your talent and experience, anything like that in a job you set would've been allowed only out of desperation! :-)

ElyseC
07-18-2005, 01:45 PM
Brad:

revising for the O.W.L. exams

A nice touch that: English & Welsh pupils would be revising for their 'O-Levels'. I'd guess 'O.W.L.' was supposed to mean the 'Ordinary Wizard Level'. American children wouldn't pick up the allusion, nor would many non-English children. Oh Lord! I suppose Harry & Co. will be staying on for their Advanced Level exams when they're 18 or so . . .No, N.E.W.T. exams. Unfortunately I cannot remember right now what that acronym stands for, but hang on...

OK, plugging that into Google I got "Nastily Exhausting Wizarding Tests" but don't know the accuracy of the site that listed it - very sparse page.

However, one interesting page that search turned up was this "Harry Potter in translation" page (http://www.answers.com/topic/harry-potter-in-translation-series). Pretty interesting how some place names and terminology came out in other languages!

Michael Rowley
07-18-2005, 02:18 PM
Elyse:

No, N.E.W.T. exams

Ordinary English (& Welsh) school pupils take the General Certificate of Education (GCE) at Ordinary Level at about 16; some stay at school for two years to take the examination at Advanced Level; that was what I imagined Master Potter would be doing. I am greatly indebted to you for the equivalent acronym in magic! I must say NEWT sounds a little contrived, but I suppose it's the right accompaniment for OWL.

BradW
07-18-2005, 02:43 PM
In my world view, what you're describing is a page orphan, and I certainly had to allow those in this book in order to balance the spreads. A page widow would be when the last line of a paragraph is alone at the top of the page, something I'm sure you won't find in this or any other book I've typeset.

Brad

BradW
07-18-2005, 02:50 PM
O.W.L. stands for Ordinary Wizarding Level, and with sufficient grades students are allowed to move on to N.E.W.T.-level classes. I can't remember what N.E.W.T. stands for, but the definition Elyse found doesn't sound right to me.

Thanks for the bit about O-Levels; I hadn't been aware of that.

Brad

donmcc
07-18-2005, 03:55 PM
I personally don't object to the first line of a paragraph at the bottom of a page, if there is no additional spacing between paragraphs. Only on the tech-doc style of putting a blank line between paragraphs cause the orphaned first line to look bad.

But then I believe a orphaned widow at the top of the page is not a bad thing if it nearly fills the measure. I argue in favor of cases where the line is short by the width of the paragraph indent or less, and personally wouldn't mind one that is more than 3/4 of the measure wide. (Of course I tended to lose those arguments with the editors.)

Don

BradW
07-18-2005, 04:33 PM
I stand corrected: Elyse's definition of N.E.W.T. was the right one. I just found it in book 3, The Prisoner of Azkaban.

Brad

Molly/CA
07-18-2005, 08:18 PM
Children and orphans first, widows last is what I made up to remember. Works if you can remember the mnemonic!

I found this when I tried Google:

Many typesetters have a hard time remembering the difference between orphans and widows. An easy trick is to remember the saying: Widows have no future (the paragraph seems to disappear after the widow) and orphans have no past (vice versa.)

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 08:11 AM
Children and orphans first, widows last is what I made up to remember. Works if you can remember the mnemonic!

I found this when I tried Google:Didn't see that in my Google results, but what I typed into the search field was:"what is a widow" + "what is an orphan" Maybe I didn't look deeply enough into the search results.

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 08:14 AM
In my world view, what you're describing is a page orphan, and I certainly had to allow those in this book in order to balance the spreads. A page widow would be when the last line of a paragraph is alone at the top of the page, something I'm sure you won't find in this or any other book I've typeset.<file file file> OK, if I can set in my mind's eye a strong enough visual to go with that, maybe I'll keep it straight. Thanks for the definitions!

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 08:26 AM
From the tiny amount of paging work I did about 10 years ago, I just remember having to do my best to keep at least two lines of each paragraph together.

Page widows/orphans only seriously bother me when its obvious the publisher was inexperienced or sloppy.

donmcc
07-19-2005, 08:56 AM
I just picked up my copy today. (40% off ... it pays to wait a few days). I was interested in finding if the Canadian version used Brad's text or not. Apparently not, as the running heads are noticeably made with simulated small caps, and I can't see Brad doing that.

Don McCahill

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 09:05 AM
I just picked up my copy today. (40% off ... it pays to wait a few days). I was interested in finding if the Canadian version used Brad's text or not. Apparently not, as the running heads are noticeably made with simulated small caps, and I can't see Brad doing that.I am sure I read that the Canadian edition was handled by a different publisher.

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 09:17 AM
I *always* read just one chapter at bedtime so as to stretch it out, but I've been bad this weekend and have read up through the chapter whose title I knew, when I went in to do the castoff in January, would be my favorite: An Excess of Phlegm.Well, I'm done. Finished the book at 2:00 a.m. this morning instead of going to bed at a decent hour link a good little girl. See, at the time I should've gone to bed, I was at a point in the story when there was no way I could've shut my brain down easily, things were getting too intense. As it was, I had to force myself to slow down and reread paragraphs to make sure I wasn't missing crucial details.

It was worth the lost sleep.

Kills me to think it'll probably be two years until the final book.

BradW
07-19-2005, 09:37 AM
Able, the font used in the running heads and for the chap titles and drop caps in the American version, only has caps and small caps. But remember, I'm not the designer; the text and headline fonts were chosen long before I came on board.

But I do get to give some input on elements that are unique to each book. In this one, I came up with the format of Harry's O.W.L. results. In the last book, I signed Percy's name to a letter he wrote to Ron.

Brad

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 09:52 AM
But I do get to give some input on elements that are unique to each book. In this one, I came up with the format of Harry's O.W.L. results. In the last book, I signed Percy's name to a letter he wrote to Ron.The fact that so many handwritten signatures appear in the books, I was surprised they didn't provide (or authorize you to create) one for Albus Dumbledore's notes to Harry. I was a little disappointed to see the sig typeset.

ktinkel
07-19-2005, 10:18 AM
Maybe I didn't look deeply enough into the search results.I think you were right in the first place: There is no hard-and-fast definition of widow or orphan.

The NYC Public Library once published a small booklet called something like “The Typographical Widow: Who Is She? What Is She?” but I cannot find my battered copy of that. I do know that one Sunday morning, back in the old, old CIS DTP Forum Days, we had a rip-roaring thread on this topic, and I do remember citing some comments from that booklet (sure wish I could find it).

I and others also rummaged through all our typesetting and usage books, looking for the definitive definition, and came to the conclusion that it was all pretty much up in the air.

There is not much disagreement about the problems, though — a lonely last line at the top of a column or (especially) page is entirely despised; a short last line in a paragraph is tolerable so long as it is not too short. That’s true whatever you call them.

Many of my sources simply refer to the latter as “short lines,” FWIW.

BradW
07-19-2005, 10:21 AM
Dumbledore has signed stuff in most of the books, and back in the early books a font was used. Keeping such things consistent throughout the books is paramount to the editors. I always have a stack of books at my side when I need to look up how something was done in the past, as well as all the files.

Brad

donmcc
07-19-2005, 03:12 PM
It was. Raincoast Books are the publisher. But I doubt that they would have reset the book. I think they used the English type files.


Don McCahill

BradW
07-19-2005, 03:28 PM
Yeah, I read something this morning indicating that Bloomsbury was responsible for the Canadian books.

Brad

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 05:04 PM
OK, then I won't obsess about it. <g> In this case it was a first line of a paragraph at the bottom of a right-hand page, so tell me what I would be safest in calling it and that's what it will be. ;-)

ElyseC
07-19-2005, 05:06 PM
Dumbledore has signed stuff in most of the books, and back in the early books a font was used. Keeping such things consistent throughout the books is paramount to the editors. I always have a stack of books at my side when I need to look up how something was done in the past, as well as all the files.Ah, pity. Would have been more fun to have some kind of real signature.

Anne Wright
07-19-2005, 06:32 PM
SATIRE:
July 18, 2005
NEW HARRY POTTER BOOK DESTROYS PRECIOUS RAINFOREST

652-Page Tome Ignites Ecological Catastrophe, Sierra Club Warns

The latest installment in the best-selling Harry Potter series, "Harry Potter and the Half-blood Prince," has destroyed one of the most precious rainforests in the world, all of whose trees were felled to create the paper for the 652-page book.

Even as librarians and educators praised the latest "Potter" book for stirring children's enthusiasm about reading, ecologists howled in protest over the book's destruction of the Dihing-Patkai rainforest in Tinsukia, India.

Clear-cutting of the Dihing-Patkai rainforest began last fall to prepare for the publication of the much-anticipated "Potter" tome, virtually eliminating the natural habitat for such bird species as the Great Hornbill and the Lesser Beautiful Nuthatch.

"I suppose we are supposed to be overjoyed that J.K. Rowling has brought forth yet another delightful installment of the Harry Potter saga," said Cassandra Spivak of the ecological group the Sierra Club. "Tell that to the Lesser Beautiful Nuthatch."

Ms. Spivak, who claimed that "The Half-Blood Prince" may have irrevocably increased the threat of global warming, also criticized the 652-page length of the book, saying that much of author Rowling's verbiage was unnecessary: "The word 'Quidditch' alone appears over nine thousand times."

While bemoaning the destruction of the Dihing-Patkai rainforest, Ms. Spivak said that the Sierra Club was "pulling out all the stops" to keep similar ecological atrocities from occurring in the future: "We are doing everything in our power to keep Bill Clinton from writing another book."

Elsewhere, the author of the Karl Rove biography "Bush's Brain" said he is at work on a sequel entitled "Bush's Brain is Leaking."

Waste Someone's Time: www.Borowitzreport.com (http://www.Borowitzreport.com)
SUBSCRIBE TODAY! Free Email Updates, click the link below or paste it into your browser.
http://www.borowitzreport.com/subscribe.asp

BradW
07-20-2005, 02:46 PM
SATIRE:
July 18, 2005
NEW HARRY POTTER BOOK DESTROYS PRECIOUS RAINFOREST


I'm glad you made it clear that this was a satire. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of the American version of HP6 handy, I can report that this is what I typeset on the last page of the book (after saying where it was printed and bound):

". . . on paper that is free of fiber from ancient forests."

I know that the folks involved are very concerned about this sort of thing; even their office building is quite "green."

Brad

ElyseC
07-20-2005, 02:56 PM
I'm glad you made it clear that this was a satire. For anyone who doesn't have a copy of the American version of HP6 handy, I can report that this is what I typeset on the last page of the book (after saying where it was printed and bound):

". . . on paper that is free of fiber from ancient forests."I noticed that right away (after skimming to first find your name :-)). Very good to know.

donmcc
07-20-2005, 09:13 PM
". . . on paper that is free of fiber from ancient forests."

Brad

Which is not to say that it is printed on recycled paper. I did read an article where one of the environmental groups was commending the Canadian printing as having been done on 100% post-consumer recycled paper, while the US was not.

To me it is more important that the books are printed on acid free paper. A book is something that I consider a worthy destination for a tree, but only if that book will still be around in more than 20 or 30 years.

Don McCahill

LHaggarty
07-22-2005, 06:32 AM
The copyeditors take care of the -ise to ize and I convert the punctuation. Brad

So to whom do I send the typos I've found? <g>

On page 10 "site" should be "sight".

On page 411 "can't wait to get shot of him" should read "can't want to get shut of him." It's a Brit expression, and no doubt was missed because of that.

My grandfather would often write publishers with corrections to books, it amuses me that now I can do the same thing via the Internet. <g>

Great work Brad! I love being able to show the colophon to my children and tell them "That's my friend!" is wonderful. Lovely book, although we knew who was going to die very early on (Allie had guessed it even before reading the book, large bugs notwithstanding.)

L

Michael Rowley
07-22-2005, 08:11 AM
L:

should read "can't want to get shut of him." It's a Brit expression

It is a 'British' (actually, English) expression, and the COD says it's 'shot'.

LHaggarty
07-22-2005, 09:01 AM
L:

should read "can't want to get shut of him." It's a Brit expression

It is a 'British' (actually, English) expression, and the COD says it's 'shot'.

Hmmm. My OED shows neither usage. When I looked for "shot of" in the online COD (askOxford.com) I saw no mention of "shot of" in the five pages of results. But when I search for "shut of" in the online COD, here's what comes up:

exclude



• verb 1 deny access to; keep out. 2 remove from consideration. 3 prevent the occurrence of. 4 expel (a pupil) from a school.

— DERIVATIVES excludable adjective excluder noun.

— ORIGIN Latin excludere, from claudere ‘to shut’.


Perhaps I carry this version of it in my brain from my Latin class back in high school. I do know it's the common usage here in the US, having seen it before. <shrug> It's certainly not worth arguing about, but worth a mention.


Cheers,


Laura

Anne Wright
07-22-2005, 09:47 AM
Brad, Just poking a bit of fun at the immense success of the Harry Potter books..
Anne

BradW
07-22-2005, 12:52 PM
So to whom do I send the typos I've found? <g>


Definitely send them to me. Whether or not I go in to make the reprint corrections, I'll definitely forward them to the managing editor.

The "site" misuse was already sent to me. And I've already found one "O.W.L." that slipped by me (I custom kern the letters) and two sequential spreads that I'd love to rebalance. I'm inclined to take Michael from Ipswich's word on "shot of." ;-)

Glad you enjoyed the book. I'm about halfway through it myself (having had all the big surprises spoiled while working on it a couple of months ago).

Brad

Michael Rowley
07-22-2005, 02:10 PM
Laura:

My OED shows neither usage

It probably isn't in the OED, even the 2nd edition, as it's rather colloquial, but I can confirm that the idiom is 'get shot of', and has nothing to do with 'shut', of course. I can't say whether the idiom is used 'in Britain', because the Scots have their own distinctive idioms (and words!).

PeterArnel
07-22-2005, 02:31 PM
So do u have any editorial control - or do u just sit down and --bash the keys-- _ I thought it was all done using the WP copy
Peter

LHaggarty
07-22-2005, 02:32 PM
I can confirm that the idiom is 'get shot of', and has nothing to do with 'shut', of course.

Well, since you're the one who's English, and I am not, I bow to your knowledge of English colloquialisms. <g> Laura

LHaggarty
07-22-2005, 02:37 PM
I'm inclined to take Michael from Ipswich's word on "shot of." ;-)

As I wrote to him, I bow to his (English) knowledge of English colloquialisms. <g>

And hey, how I do get the term "Sysop Emeritus" by my name, hmm? I weren't the Wizop (isn't that how yours should read?) but I were a sysop, all those years ago (how on earth did we get so old?)

L

ktinkel
07-22-2005, 03:54 PM
And hey, how I do get the term "Sysop Emeritus" by my name, hmm? I weren't the Wizop (isn't that how yours should read?) but I were a sysop, all those years ago (how on earth did we get so old?)Don is still on staff. Are you looking for a job? We have some projects ahead … :-)

LHaggarty
07-22-2005, 04:01 PM
KT,

I suppose what I meant is Wizop Emeritus (for BW.)

IRT your question, please define "job" (and feel free to do so in private email), bearing in mind that since we are so far out in the country we have to drive towards town to hunt, I am on v e r y s l o w dial-up. As well, my experience in matters DTP-ish is dated, with most of my professional work now being done in livestock management. <g> But let me know what you need and I'll see if it would fit.

L

ktinkel
07-22-2005, 04:11 PM
… please define "job" (and feel free to do so in private email)I will get back to you, I hope this weekend. (Sucker! <g>).

BradW
07-22-2005, 04:12 PM
So do u have any editorial control - or do u just sit down and --bash the keys-- _ I thought it was all done using the WP copy
Peter

I get the job as word processor files, convert them to XPress Tags, translate them, and pour them into XPress templates. There I add the chapter opening art, finesse any special type treatments, check the line breaks, balance the spreads, and add the running heads.

After each read, I make the changes, rebreaking lines and rebalancing spreads as needed.

Brad

Molly/CA
07-29-2005, 04:53 PM
I've heard, and seen, both "get shut of" and "get shot of" --the latter, to me, has a more British flavor but not sure why -- so I'm not sure that counts as a typo.

Molly/CA
07-29-2005, 05:19 PM
So what do you think of the font used for the chapter heads and so on? (Everyone)

The more I see of it the more satisfying it is to me, it just seems like everything is in such perfect funky balance. At this point I think it's about the best thing about the Harry Potter books --though now I'd have to count the good proofreading. It's invisible unless it's bad, what a bummer for you. I don't think I've even seen a misused homonym in an HP book.

BradW
07-30-2005, 05:59 AM
I love Able, the font used for the chap titles, drop caps, and running heads. I imagine it was the creative director, David Saylor, that picked it back on book 1, and it has really stood the test of time.

Brad

BigJohnD
07-30-2005, 06:28 AM
I just picked up my copy today. (40% off ... it pays to wait a few days).

It's now on sale in hardback in Kwik-Save for £4.99 instead of the cover price of £16.99. It certainly pays to wait a few days and beats queueing in the middle of the night.

donmcc
07-30-2005, 08:53 AM
That must be a loss leader for that chain. Normally a book is wholesaled at 40% off list (in North America, at least). Distributors can get another 10 or 15%, and I assume that the grocery chain I bought from bought a wholesalers quantity, allowing them to make a profit at 40% off.

But I can't imagine that the book is being remaindered anywhere yet, so a 70% discount (or so) must mean the retailer is taking a hit to lure people into his shop. Heck, at least £1.70 of that price (probably more) goes direct to Rowling).

Don McCahill

Michael Rowley
07-30-2005, 02:55 PM
Don:

Normally a book is wholesaled at 40%

The publisher's price is a joke to all except bookshops: nowadays best-sellers are purchased from the chain grocers. There won't be any bookshops soon—and we won't be able to get any book unless a couple of million people want to buy it.

Mike
07-31-2005, 12:58 AM
Don:

Normally a book is wholesaled at 40%

The publisher's price is a joke to all except bookshops: nowadays best-sellers are purchased from the chain grocers. There won't be any bookshops soon—and we won't be able to get any book unless a couple of million people want to buy it.

Or it's self-published over the Internet.

Amazon will sell small-run books from unknown publishers -- the only problem is the margins they want. Last time I looked into it they would stock a book but take something like 60% or more.

And, at least in the UK, Amazon has kept a number of small bookshops in business by giving them an outlet that they wouldn't otherwise have. Not too long ago I was talking to a bookshop owner who said that half their sales occurred via Amazon and, without that, they would have gone out of business.

Michael Rowley
07-31-2005, 07:38 AM
Mike:

Amazon has kept a number of small bookshops in business by giving them an outlet that they wouldn't otherwise have

Are you talking there about books that are out of print? (Books seem to go out o print remarkably quickly these days.)

I suppose publishers have to allow Amazon large rebates, as they do Smiths etc. I wasn't thinking of those, dominant in the market as they are, but of Tesco and the like (substitute any company that's essentially a chain grocer), which sell an increasing number of best-sellers but which don't attempt to offer the service you can expect of a bookshop, i.e. getting any book that is in print for no more than the published price.

donmcc
07-31-2005, 07:53 AM
60% is not bad if they are ordering a bulk shipment. Few wholesalers will buy unless they get 50%, and usually a few points more. Of course, if they are looking for that rate for ones or twos, it is a bit steep.

I'd pay 60% to get the coverage that Amazon gives, if they were ordering several dozen copies at a time (on normal consignment, orf course).

Don McCahill