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BobRoosth
06-18-2012, 04:30 PM
I have an InDesign job that was set up with PMS colors. Yes, I know it should have started with process, but I didn't create it. I am looking for opinions on the most reliable conversions. The Ink Manager says it will do the job automatically, using Lab conversions. I have seen postings elsewhere arguing that Lab is not reliable.

I don't have the Pantone Spot to Process book and really don't want to pay $300 for a copy.

What do you do?

donmcc
06-18-2012, 09:05 PM
Does the printer have a spot to process book you can get values from? (Unless there are dozens of spots, in which case you are on a rescue mission for someone who let an amateur do a job. In that case, buy the book and bill the client a stupidity charge.)

Don

annc
06-19-2012, 12:15 AM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but what's wrong with just editing the swatches in InDesign? It seems to have the conversion values built-in.

FWIW, I've always done my RGB to CMYK conversions via Lab.

I went for a job interview once where the interviewer was very critical of a couple of widows and orphans in a magazine issue I'd taken along, but when we were discussing the work to be done and I asked him if he converted directly from RGB to CMYK, he said he did...

BobRoosth
06-19-2012, 08:58 AM
You are not missing anything. I have little experience with 4-c printing. I don't know how reliable InDesign's conversion is. I know that I compared it's values for one color to that chosen by Corel Draw and saw very different results. I have access to the official Pantone book. I'll see what it says.

annc
06-19-2012, 02:04 PM
I'll be interested to see what you find.

BobRoosth
06-19-2012, 06:30 PM
Well... I don't know which one to believe.
PMS 209C
Pantone's Color Bridge book 22c 90m 40y 35k
ID's version 0c 100m 34y 53k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 14c 94m 36y 60k

PMS 7408C
Pantone Color Bridge book 0c 31m 91y 3k
ID 5.88c 35.29m 100y 0k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 0c 30m 99y 0k

PMS 158C
Pantone Color Bridge book 0c 50m 84y 0k
ID 5.49c 70.2m 100y .39k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 0c 64m 95y 0k

annc
06-19-2012, 06:37 PM
InDesign using the Pantone Color Bridge is fairly close to the Pantone Color Bridge. In fact, it's close enough for tiny changes in colour on the press to explain it if anyone queried the results. :)

BobRoosth
06-19-2012, 07:06 PM
I agree, fairly close. But why not the same?

For this job, I am not sure minor changes in most of them are important. 209 is used throughout for headings and emphasis. I'll go back to the printer and see what his pre-press department says.

Does anyone know a way to find all styles that use a particular color? I want to change all of them to a CMYK swatch.

Steve Rindsberg
06-20-2012, 08:26 AM
Pantone changes things from time to time, go figure.

FWIW, their Process Color Imaging Guide 1000 gives:

209C
0 c 83m 34y 51k

which'd seem to agree most closely with ID's version.

Note that my book is probably ten years old. But while the colors may fade, I don't believe that the printed numbers self-adjust to accommodate. ;-)

Robin Springall
06-22-2012, 04:57 PM
Well... I don't know which one to believe.
PMS 209C
Pantone's Color Bridge book 22c 90m 40y 35k
ID's version 0c 100m 34y 53k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 14c 94m 36y 60k

PMS 7408C
Pantone Color Bridge book 0c 31m 91y 3k
ID 5.88c 35.29m 100y 0k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 0c 30m 99y 0k

PMS 158C
Pantone Color Bridge book 0c 50m 84y 0k
ID 5.49c 70.2m 100y .39k
ID using Pantone Color Bridge 0c 64m 95y 0k
My Pantone book gives:
P209C: C0 M100 Y34 K53 (looks dead close in colour)
P7408C: C0 M25 Y95 K0 (but that process colour is way off)
P158C: C0 M61 Y97 K0 (that's a bit off, too)

Many Pantones do not convert nicely to process.

BobRoosth
06-22-2012, 05:16 PM
Many Pantones do not convert nicely to process.

Understood. I suspect the only that at is critical is 209. That is used as the accent color throughout the job. The others only used a couple of places to correlate with colors on the company's website and older printed catalog.

I am going to purchase copy of the Bridge book so I'll have a reference to show the client. One of my clients wholesales the entire Pantone line, so I can get what the owner terms a Friends and Family discount. That makes the cost a bit more tolerable.

BobRoosth
07-10-2012, 07:27 PM
For whatever it is worth: today I reviewed a proof of the job with the printer. I am not entirely sure of the proofing process, but the job is being run on a six-color Heidelberg, stochastic screening. The company owner said the proof is created by the RIP that preps the job for the press. The screen is visible in the proof. The most critical color, PMS 209 is about as close as one can expect from a CMYK build. I used the numbers from the Pantone conversion book.