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ElyseC
05-15-2005, 02:11 PM
Just got a pointer to this from one of my siblings...

It all began long long ago in a Galaxy far far away, but recently brought to a grocery store (http://www.storewars.org/flash/index.html) near you.

djb
05-15-2005, 02:33 PM
Yeah, well... When the organic industry can provide decent quality produce at less than twice the price of the mainstream farm I'll consider them.

ElyseC
05-15-2005, 02:56 PM
Having just last night watched (finally!) for the first time Episode I and looking forward to renting Episode II as soon as we take 'I' back to the store, and having a major Star Wars fan for a five year old son, getting that in email from my siblings today was great timing. Ben's just now trying to get a handle on humor and that creative little movie had plays on words he could get. He loved "ChewBroccoli." <gg>

Stephen Owades
05-15-2005, 03:21 PM
I watched the film and the credits, and didn't see any evidence that they had permission to use John Williams's music. It's one thing to create a "parody" of Star Wars, which is presumably protected speech, but they lifted large chunks from Williams's score for Star Wars, and that isn't kosher unless they received explicit permission (and probably paid royalties as well). And this seems "commercial" enough that I doubt it would be acceptable as any sort of "casual" or "inadvertent" infringement.

ElyseC
05-15-2005, 03:28 PM
I wondered about that, too. I guess if we check the site in a few days and the movie is gone, we'll know that Lucasfilms had at 'em. If my siblings got it sent to them and passed it along to me, I'm sure it's wildly being forwarded around the net. Lucasfilms is bound to know about it in short order if they don't already. If the site is going to get a 'cease and desist' they'll probably get it in the next day or two. That's my bet.

Stephen Owades
05-15-2005, 08:57 PM
I wondered about that, too. I guess if we check the site in a few days and the movie is gone, we'll know that Lucasfilms had at 'em. If my siblings got it sent to them and passed it along to me, I'm sure it's wildly being forwarded around the net. Lucasfilms is bound to know about it in short order if they don't already. If the site is going to get a 'cease and desist' they'll probably get it in the next day or two. That's my bet.
Under the general copyright exemption for "parody," I think the organic food folks may well be safe from Lucasfilm. But they stole John Williams's work outright, and that's pretty hard to justify legally or morally, unless of course they had his permission (which I expect they'd acknowledge in the credits).

ElyseC
05-16-2005, 08:11 AM
Under the general copyright exemption for "parody," I think the organic food folks may well be safe from Lucasfilm. But they stole John Williams's work outright, and that's pretty hard to justify legally or morally, unless of course they had his permission (which I expect they'd acknowledge in the credits).As it happens, I just had occasion to talk with a friend in the entertainment industry about this issue in regards to a stage production he and I (along with two other people) co-wrote. This was my first time being involved with this particular show (which is produced by another friend in the industry out in L.A. and takes place here every July 3rd) and I asked how we go about getting permission to use whatever music. My co-writer, who is also an actor and SAG member, told me that because it's being done by a non-profit organization and no tickets are sold, nor otherwise is the audience required to pay to attend, we can use the music. Oh, and my L.A. producer friend of 34 years has run his own recording studio for something like 26 years in North Hollywood, working with artists like Peter Cetera and David Foster. He's pretty mindful of industry regs.

Maybe "free for non-profit use" is the tack this organic group is taking? I dunno. Just guessing.

Like I say, the way things like this travel around in email, I have no doubt John Williams, George Lucas and/or someone watching out for their interests will see it soon if they haven't already. If a 'cease and desist' is in order, I'm positive they'll receive it sooner rather than later.

Michael Rowley
05-16-2005, 10:20 AM
Elyse:

If a 'cease and desist' is in order

In Britain it would be an invoice from GEMA, and surely a similar organization operates in the USA. Artistes don't want to stop anyone from using their music, but expect to be paid as long as it's in copyright.

JohnC
05-16-2005, 11:50 AM
I've never heard this before.

I'm involved with a couple of non profit theater groups and we've had to pay ASCAP and BMI for music rights for variety shows and we've had to license music for plays. I don't think that non-profit comes into play in this.

If you could cite some references for this that would be great.

Thanks!

John

Michael Rowley
05-16-2005, 12:19 PM
John:

I've never heard this before

You wouldn't have done! I wrote 'GEMA', which is the German equivalent of the British 'Perfoming Rights Socety' (PRS). The PRS sends out invoices for 'public performances' of music, & a lot of things constitute a 'public performance'—and the PRS has got the lawyers to back it up. GEMA does the same sort of thing in Germany.

I should have thought the USA has a similar organization, but US law is bit difficult to understand, since there are about fifty law-making bodies. You can find PRS on the Web.

ElyseC
05-16-2005, 12:53 PM
I really am no expert on this stuff, just repeating what I've been told. In any case, I'm not into legal or political wrangling and only posted the link to share the giggle I got from the parody. Nothing more. :-)

ElyseC
05-16-2005, 12:55 PM
Nah, don't have anything to cite and not interested in wrangling. I only posted to share the giggle I got from the parody. If someone else wants to wrangle, I'll watch. Maybe. :-)

Molly/CA
05-18-2005, 05:11 PM
Yeah, well... When the organic industry can provide decent quality produce at less than twice the price of the mainstream farm I'll consider them.

I think it must depend on where you live and where you shop. Berkeley Bowl in CA (Berkeley) has organic matches to almost all of its commercial produce and it's usually only a penny or two more --occasionally less. I've often bought one of each for comparison and in almost all cases the organic is significantly better, especially the "ingredient" vegetables such as celery. Whole Foods market has odd pricing, some things wildly over anywhere else and some considerably less, but much of their organic produce is also within pennies of commercial. Meats are more but usually so much less watery and so much better trimmed that the value is equal or better. Costco has a fair number of organic items at very competitive prices, and so do local "big box" discount groceries (Pak'nSave, Food Maxx here --poor people's stores but "poor" being so equivalent to "ethnic" a great many immigrants who shop there are still attached to good food and still expect to spend a greater proportion of their income on food than longtime residents.

Trader Joe's organic tomato paste is actually cheaper than the local supermarket's semi-generic and it's so much better I can't believe it.

I don't know if it counts as organic, but I just read (must have been New Scientist) that Indian (the continent) farmers are tired of low yield-high input GE/GM cotton are going back to non-engineered types and treating their fields with... Coke and Pepsi! They say it works as well as a pesticide as anything they've been buying. The para was unreferenced and I fully expect it all to be shot down but fun while it lasts. The soft drink companies are not pleased--

Molly/CA
05-18-2005, 05:22 PM
I'm involved with a couple of non profit theater groups and we've had to pay ASCAP and BMI for music rights for variety shows and we've had to license music for plays. I don't think that non-profit comes into play in this.
John

But do you charge an admission fee? The opera group I used to play with was non-profit (and how) also, but because people bought tickets the company had to pay the royalties --based on the number of seats (not tickets sold) in the house as I remember. They used to rope the balcony off for some things because the available seats jumped a bracket and the royalty hike was more than the price of the tickets for them. The founder, Buck Townsend, got a horrible surprise when he got a bill for royalties for an aria from a late Puccini opera done in the Gala medley night --hadn't realized it was still under copyright. Puccini died in about 1926 and with renewals and changes in copyright law it was still eligible.

The schools must get some kind of a break --must ask. Our High School does all kinds of "recent" (not to the kids!) musicals --Annie, Hello Dolly, Sound of Music and so on.

ElyseC
05-18-2005, 06:05 PM
The soft drink companies are not pleased--Heh! Having once worked for Coca-Cola, I'm sure they aren't. <gg>

ktinkel
05-18-2005, 06:16 PM
Berkeley Bowl in CA (Berkeley) …I love that store! I do believe it is unusual on the planet (in the U.S., anyway), but it is extraordinarily wonderful!

Whole Foods market has odd pricing, some things wildly over anywhere else and some considerably less, but much of their organic produce is also within pennies of commercial. Meats are more but usually so much less watery and so much better trimmed that the value is equal or better. I am especially fond of a beef cut available here — a traditional New England cut of sirloin called the “spoon roast” — that I almost consider it reasonable to drive three hours to the nearest Whole Foods to buy it!

Trader Joe's organic tomato paste is actually cheaper than the local supermarket's semi-generic and it's so much better I can't believe it. Didn’t know that. As a certifiable fan of TJ’s, I will have to look for the tomato paste. (I do not usually like their pasta sauces; but we have high [read=Sicilian!] standards for those.)

Have you seen the small packets of seasoned olives? They are lovely, and a very useful size for a family, like mine, where only one of us will eat olives!