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djb
05-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Korinna Mutilated. It used to be very popular! <g>

Probably Korinna Extrabold, though it could be Bold with strokes and such. Some lateral compression, and what looks a skew.

Ah Korinna... Popular about the samme time as Mistral was appearing everywhere.

And Kabel... Remember Kabel?

ktinkel
05-09-2005, 05:01 PM
And Kabel... Remember Kabel?Of course I remember Kabel — it is one of my favorite typefaces.
http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/images/kabel.gif
Just don’t get me started on Mistral, another fave!

djb
05-09-2005, 05:33 PM
ROFL!

I remember working for Peregrine Press (a small shop in White Rock, BC) in the mid-80s. An exchange guaranteed to raise howls of laughter went something like:

"I need a design idea for this ad"

"Use Mistral, and do a ripped paper look drop shadow!"

;-)

I loved Mistral, and Aachen Bold.

Good times, Goo-oo-d times...

donmcc
05-09-2005, 06:14 PM
I loved Mistral, and Aachen Bold.

I would have been working at the North Vancouver News at about that time ... everybody loved Aachen Bold, the ultimate advertising font for the customer or salesman who wants it "really bold."

Don

ktinkel
05-09-2005, 06:15 PM
"Use Mistral, and do a ripped paper look drop shadow!"Oh, gee — you do keep tempting me.

djb
05-09-2005, 06:21 PM
Oh, gee — you do keep tempting me.

Hmmm...

Souvenir? <d&rvvvvf>

We're back to the Varityper font set, BTW.

ktinkel
05-09-2005, 06:24 PM
Hmmm...

Souvenir?Okay. I give up.

I do think Ed Benguiat is a formidable letter-drawer, but I draw the line at those 19th-century revivals and their kin, Souvenir very much among them!

It is popular (as is Korinna, another Benguiat design) for TV titling. I suppose because of the lack of subtlety. :-)

djb
05-09-2005, 06:26 PM
I would have been working at the North Vancouver News at about that time ... everybody loved Aachen Bold, the ultimate advertising font for the customer or salesman who wants it "really bold."

Don

In the very early 80s I was at Capilano College and we actually had to destroy a press run of a parody issue after legal threats from the Snooze. Good times...

Do you remember the whole Southam/LMNP kerfuffle? Some of the principals from that event are now our owners here at the Producer.

djb

djb
05-09-2005, 06:32 PM
Okay. I give up.

I do think Ed Benguiat is a formidable letter-drawer, but I draw the line at those 19th-century revivals and their kin, Souvenir very much among them!

It is popular (as is Korinna, another Benguiat design) for TV titling. I suppose because of the lack of subtlety. :-)

ROFLMAO!

I promise never to push your Souvenir button again, Kathleen. But I just couldn't resist.

;-*

Back in the Varityper days, we used Cooper Black when we needed an extra bold Souvenir, BTW.

One font I do miss from those days is English Times. Has it ever been digitized?

ktinkel
05-09-2005, 06:38 PM
I would have been working at the North Vancouver News at about that time ... everybody loved Aachen Bold, the ultimate advertising font for the customer or salesman who wants it "really bold."Now this one’s for Don!
http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/images/aachen.gif

ktinkel
05-09-2005, 06:40 PM
… English Times. Has it ever been digitized?Yes, though I am not sure where I saw it.

Somehow don’t think it was Compugraphic/Agfa, but that would be the most logical guess.

djb
05-09-2005, 08:38 PM
Yes, though I am not sure where I saw it.
Somehow don’t think it was Compugraphic/Agfa, but that would be the most logical guess.

The last time I saw it was on a Compugraphic film strip, so that's possible.

I thought it was an incredibly well proportioned serif font. I suppose I still do!

;-)

BURMA!

ktinkel
05-10-2005, 09:03 AM
The last time I saw it was on a Compugraphic film strip, so that's possible.

I thought it was an incredibly well proportioned serif font. I suppose I still do!
English Times was Compugraphic’s knockoff of Times Roman. I think it was early, of the same vintage as its first Helvetica knockoff (Triumvirate). It looks as if it was modeled on the Lino hot metal original, mainly because the roman and italic have the same CPP, and because such characters as the top of the f and the bottom of the j do not kern (as they do in later digital versions from Linotype).

English Times may be a little narrower than Times (which is what I would call semi-condensed), but the proportions don’t seem too different (comparing 12-point alpha showings from Compugraphic 1988 and Lino 1985 specimen books). But English Times looks a bit heavier, maybe (to the extent one can evaluate such a thing from one-liner specimens in different books).

Interesting: the 1985 Compugraphic book has both English Times and CG Times (which has the same weights and styles — and kerning characters — of our digital Times Roman today). The book also shows not only real Helvetica but both of its clones, Triumvirate and Helios.

Both of these books were showing types used in the companies’ film typesetters, not metal.

djb
05-10-2005, 09:19 AM
I recall seeing ET and TR as quite different, but we're talking about 20 year old memories now. I'll have to track down some specimens and see whether my brain is playing tricks again.

<homer>"Shut up, brain, or I'll stab you with a Q-Tip!"</homer>

Stephen Owades
05-10-2005, 10:14 AM
English Times was Compugraphic’s knockoff of Times Roman. I think it was early, of the same vintage as its first Helvetica knockoff (Triumvirate). It looks as if it was modeled on the Lino hot metal original, mainly because the roman and italic have the same CPP, and because such characters as the top of the f and the bottom of the j do not kern (as they do in later digital versions from Linotype).

English Times may be a little narrower than Times (which is what I would call semi-condensed), but the proportions don’t seem too different (comparing 12-point alpha showings from Compugraphic 1988 and Lino 1985 specimen books). But English Times looks a bit heavier, maybe (to the extent one can evaluate such a thing from one-liner specimens in different books).

Interesting: the 1985 Compugraphic book has both English Times and CG Times (which has the same weights and styles — and kerning characters — of our digital Times Roman today). The book also shows not only real Helvetica but both of its clones, Triumvirate and Helios.

Both of these books were showing types used in the companies’ film typesetters, not metal.
I think you're right that English Times was an early Times Roman knockoff from Compugraphic. That makes it parallel, time-wise, with Helios, which was their early Helvetica knockoff.

CG Times and Triumvirate were introduced by Compugraphic after the Storch court decision made it legal for them to replicate Linotype V-I-P faces without fear of copyright infringement. Until that case (which was about an outfit that was producing knockoff font film masters for the V-I-P, copying the Linotype originals and selling the results at a lower price), vendors of typesetting equipment like Compugraphic feared legal repercussions if they made their knockoffs "exactly" like the originals. But once the court ruled in favor of Storch, they quickly brought out a series of "look-alike" knockoffs like CG Times and Triumvirate.

ktinkel
05-10-2005, 11:16 AM
I think you're right that English Times was an early Times Roman knockoff from Compugraphic. That makes it parallel, time-wise, with Helios, which was their early Helvetica knockoff.

CG Times and Triumvirate were introduced by Compugraphic after the Storch court decision made it legal for them to replicate Linotype V-I-P faces without fear of copyright infringement.Ahh. I had Triumvirate and Helios mixed up then. I had a publishing client with its own CG equipment, and we used Helios into the 1980s. So I remember Helios more vividly. (Not sure I ever used Triumvirate, in fact. But by then I was well out of my Helvetica phase — by some 20 years!)

donmcc
05-10-2005, 06:28 PM
In reverse, as well. So very like all the ads that I was asked to set.

Don

donmcc
05-10-2005, 06:32 PM
I vaguely remember a parody issue when I was out there. I was only with the paper for a few months. My own newspaper folded in Saskatchewan in late March, and I headed for the warmest part of Canada. I think I left that fall, so I don't know about the Southam thing. A Peter somebody owned the paper when I was there, sole proprietor I think.

I just saw a story in the Globe magazine, I think, recently that mentioned that the Pool had sold the WP. I didn't realize they had gone through such problems. I suspect that WP Books has died out? It was a great little regional publisher.

Don

djb
05-10-2005, 07:44 PM
Prairie Books was shut down before I got out here. 1992, I think. It was bleeding money.

Pool sold us about 30 months ago.

ktinkel
05-11-2005, 06:19 AM
In reverse, as well. So very like all the ads that I was asked to set.It just seems to ask to be reversed!

Bet you didn’t get too many requests for that color scheme, though! <g>

donmcc
05-11-2005, 08:05 AM
No, back in the 80s colour was rarely available. And then it was usually whatever color was chosen for the flag of the newspaper.

Don McCahill

djb
05-11-2005, 10:53 AM
No, back in the 80s colour was rarely available. And then it was usually whatever color was chosen for the flag of the newspaper.

In the mid-late 80s I worked for a small publisher in Whte Rock. We did a monthly magazine called the Semiahmoo Sounder. Large format, color throughout. We commonly used old wallpaper sample books for ad backgrounds... And cut a LOT of amberlith masks.

ElyseC
05-11-2005, 12:38 PM
In the mid-late 80s I worked for a small publisher in Whte Rock. We did a monthly magazine called the Semiahmoo Sounder. Large format, color throughout. We commonly used old wallpaper sample books for ad backgrounds... And cut a LOT of amberlith masks.Ah, amberlith! I always enjoyed cutting ambers. Less than a year before I went electronic, I invested in a large tube of the stuff. Lotta money for a freelancer. Finally tossed it about 10 years later, probably only 40% used.

Franca
05-11-2005, 12:43 PM
I bet we've got some around that hasn't been tossed yet.... I enjoyed watching someone else cut the ambers. ;-) We had rubylith, too.

ElyseC
05-11-2005, 12:55 PM
I bet we've got some around that hasn't been tossed yet.... I enjoyed watching someone else cut the ambers. ;-) We had rubylith, too.Rubys were tougher to see through and the printers we used had no problem with exposures from ambers, so we went with what was easier on our eyes. I cut rubys only a few times (when given someone else's art boards to revise) and grumped the whole while. <g>

ktinkel
05-11-2005, 01:00 PM
I bet we've got some around that hasn't been tossed yet.... I enjoyed watching someone else cut the ambers. ;-) We had rubylith, too.I know I have some of both amber and rubylith, along with a big box of ruby tapes. Have no idea whether there’s any stickum left, of course!

I gave all my old sheets of type to a school art teacher a few years ago, but for some reason couldn’t bring myself to dump the rubylith stuff as well. Silly. (And I sort of regret dumping all that type — some of it would be useful now, even if only as specimens. Oh, well.)

ElyseC
05-11-2005, 01:14 PM
I know I have some of both amber and rubylith, along with a big box of ruby tapes. Have no idea whether there’s any stickum left, of course!The liths probably won't peel apart now. When I tried it (just for the heck of it) before tossing my tube, it just didn't want to peel. Helped me to toss it knowing it was truly unusable.

I gave all my old sheets of type to a school art teacher a few years ago, but for some reason couldn’t bring myself to dump the rubylith stuff as well. Silly. (And I sort of regret dumping all that type — some of it would be useful now, even if only as specimens. Oh, well.)I thought about keeping some, but it all went into the trash as soon as I saw whole letters falling off the carrier sheets and/or refusing to transfer entirely.

djb
05-11-2005, 03:14 PM
Ah, amberlith! I always enjoyed cutting ambers. Less than a year before I went electronic, I invested in a large tube of the stuff. Lotta money for a freelancer. Finally tossed it about 10 years later, probably only 40% used.

I worked for a short time for a company that did enamel silkscreening onto metal for signage. Cutting 6 to 12 color jobs was "interesting".

ElyseC
05-11-2005, 06:50 PM
I worked for a short time for a company that did enamel silkscreening onto metal for signage. Cutting 6 to 12 color jobs was "interesting".Ayup. Did some 5 and 6 color jobs, but no 12.

djb
05-11-2005, 07:25 PM
We did some signage for the Boston Zoo that used (IIRC) 12 DPI color halftones. The signs were designed to be viewed from 50 - 100 feet away.

ElyseC
05-11-2005, 07:30 PM
We did some signage for the Boston Zoo that used (IIRC) 12 DPI color halftones. The signs were designed to be viewed from 50 - 100 feet away.Makes sense. I know the billboards I've done were, while not that low, markedly lower than any regular print work I've ever done, even on the lowest-budget newsprint projects.