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Bo Aakerstrom
11-04-2009, 03:21 AM
Having used what is now ACDSee Canvas for many years I am accustomed to be able to rotate my page view (0, 90, 180 and 270 degrees rotation) which is very handy for product packaging as text will sometimes will run at angles or even upside down when I am working on a project.

I know you can rotate text and so on, but it is at times neccessary to see things the way it will look on the finished product.

As I understand it you cannot do this in QXP8 (when posting a query on their forum I was adviced to tilt my monitor or change the orientation of the display, which is of course not really what I was the solution I was looking for). Grouping and rotating everything is not an option either as guides will be in the wrong place.

Is this possible using InDesign or Illustrator? Do you know of any current application suitable for this kind of work that can output a press PDF which has got this feature? Tried to find out on various forums but it is a frustrating and time consuming exercise!

Or am I stuck on my old version of Canvas forever?

Bo Aakerstrom
11-04-2009, 04:29 AM
Or am I stuck on my old version of Canvas forever?

Not trying to answer my question here, just a comment!

Canvas 8 does work just fine on Vista (hopefully it will still work on Win7 too), with only one real issue: to import an image from file you have to open the image with Canvas then copy and paste into the file you are working on.

In all it's not bad for an application that's 7 years old.

Benwiggy
11-04-2009, 06:39 AM
A quick google for "indesign rotate page" (and a quick glance round the menus) shows that you can't really just "rotate the paper" to look at it from a different angle, though there are workarounds, which are however 'destructive' to the page layout. The same is true for illustrator.

You can however rotate a PDF page or entire document in Acrobat.

Many years ago, there used to be Radius monitors that you could rotate from landscape to portrait. I wonder whatever happened to them?

Whenever you rotate something, don't forget to leave one quarter fallow over the winter.:D

Cristen Gillespie
11-04-2009, 06:58 AM
Benwiggy: . . .you can't really just "rotate the paper"

You can rotate in ID CS4. It's a highly touted feature. It comes under View>Rotate Spread. You can't rotate to any angle, but you can for his purposes, and it's non-destructive, since you're rotating your view only.

You can't rotate your artboard in AI. Obviously, you can rotate any vector object or collection of vector objects non-destructively. You can non-destructively rotate to any angle in PS, if you have an OpenGL capable graphics card.

Bo Aakerstrom
11-04-2009, 08:18 AM
Have not used PS in a long while and it can probably do much more than the versions I used, but mostly using vector shapes and images plus text in one and the same document limits my options somewhat.

If only Canvas had a clear future then I would be happy, but sadly that does not seem to be the case, hence my reluctance to upgrade.

Benwiggy
11-04-2009, 08:23 AM
Well, there you are then. That's good to know.

However, I would suggest that the method in AI is destructive, because you are changing the objects' position with respect to the artboard.

For your rotation in PS, is this different from Image > Rotate Canvas ??
Because that too is destructive, in the sense that it changes the data, rather than the viewing position.

terrie
11-04-2009, 10:23 AM
benwiggy: Many years ago, there used to be Radius monitors that you could rotate from landscape to portrait. I wonder whatever happened to them?I don't think they are available anymore but I can rotate my NEC 2190Uxi LCD monitor from landscape to portrait although I've never done it...

Terrie

Howard Allen
11-04-2009, 10:25 AM
There are simple kludges that will do what you want. The simplest is to make a PDF of your work and use "Rotate View" in Acrobat/Reader/Whatever, which will rotate your work in 90° increments. If you need infinitely variable rotation you can make a PDF then open (or place) it as an object in another window of your design application. Then just rotate it like any vector object. This definitely works in AI and InDesign, probably in Canvas, too.

Howard Allen
11-04-2009, 10:31 AM
For your rotation in PS, is this different from Image > Rotate Canvas ??
Because that too is destructive, in the sense that it changes the data, rather than the viewing position.

Well, "destructive" in this case may be a bit alarmist, considering there is an Undo command (and a History palette, among other things). :)

Howard Allen
11-04-2009, 10:38 AM
Radius is ancient history (IIRC it was absorbed into another company in the mid-90s), but there are scores of monitors on the market today that do the same thing; I think most of the major vendors offer units with rotation capability, like your NEC. How well it works, though, I don't know; in fact, it probably wouldn't be what Bo is looking for, because the drivers probably rotate an erect landscape image to an erect portrait image (as the old Radius Pivot monitors did); so in that respect, it would be worse than a regular monitor.

terrie
11-04-2009, 11:54 AM
howard: I think most of the major vendors offer units with rotation capability, like your NEC. Yes...it does appear to be fairly common...


>>in fact, it probably wouldn't be what Bo is looking for

I didn't think Bo was looking for that either for exactly the reasons you mentioned...

Terrie

Cristen Gillespie
11-05-2009, 06:31 AM
Well, there you are then. That's good to know.

However, I would suggest that the method in AI is destructive, because you are changing the objects' position with respect to the artboard.

For your rotation in PS, is this different from Image > Rotate Canvas ??
Because that too is destructive, in the sense that it changes the data, rather than the viewing position.

Rotating in AI isn't destructive, even if you're changing the object's position. You simply rotate it back to where you started. I assume that's what you want to do. However, it's vector. It's a set of instructions, not a physical object. Until it's rasterized, you can change, and if you want, change back, without degrading the object. Where it stands in relation to the artboard is your call. Not quite the same thing as setting a photo on an odd angle where you're forcing interpolation.

In PS, yes, Rotate View is different from Image Rotation. It rotates the view, not the pixels on the grid. Restore the view to it's initial orientation and you're good to go.

Image Rotation isn't destructive in and of itself. If you rotate in 90 degree increments, you don't change a single pixel. Just don't try that at 35 degrees, where the software has to interpolate between pixels to fill the grid.

I can even use Free Transform (on a normal layer) and rotate 90 degrees and then back again without any degradation. Of course, it's always safer to turn the layer into a smart object if I plan on rotating it constantly. Then I can rotate it 35 degrees for viewing without a problem. I can't correct anything at that viewing angle, but I can look all I want.

Of course, even then, as someone else pointed out, there's History. You can rotate, then step backwards. Unfortunately, you'll be undoing any changes you made, so don't make any.<G> But if you only need to see that a word set sideways is spelled correctly, and you're willing to correct it in the normal orientation if it is, you can rotate, undo, correct. Nothing destructive about that, apart from destroying the misspelling.

Benwiggy
11-05-2009, 07:01 AM
You misunderstand the term "destructive". I am not implying that the data is irreversibly degraded in any way --- but it is altered.

I am aware that there are Undo and History commands.

However, it's like the difference between zooming in on the page View and changing the scale of the object.

The point is that changing the View of the object (to a different rotation or Zoom) does not affect how the page will print or export.

If you just want to check some upside down text, and you have to rotate the object on the page before you send to press, there is still the risk of not putting it back correctly, which is absent from "Rotate View".

So while these "workarounds" are obviously available, they are not the same as the rotate view capability that the OP is looking for, which is to be welcomed.

PS. Can't find "Rotate View" in PS. Is that new in CS4, too?

Bo Aakerstrom
11-05-2009, 12:03 PM
There are simple kludges that will do what you want. The simplest is to make a PDF of your work and use "Rotate View" in Acrobat/Reader/Whatever, which will rotate your work in 90° increments. If you need infinitely variable rotation you can make a PDF then open (or place) it as an object in another window of your design application. Then just rotate it like any vector object. This definitely works in AI and InDesign, probably in Canvas, too.

Well, in Canvas I don't have to resort to doing that.

I'll try using Reader in conjunction with QXP just to see how practical this is.

Esko makes plugins to Illustrator for designing both boxes and artwork but I've seen their prices. Not an option at all.

Bo Aakerstrom
11-05-2009, 12:15 PM
Sorry Howard, this doesn't do it for me. I'll have to consider my options, thank goodness my copy of QXP8 is only a demo, if I had spent money only to find out I couldn't do what I wanted I'd be upset.

Perhaps I'll just hold my laptop upside down instead.:)

Bo Aakerstrom
11-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Many years ago, there used to be Radius monitors that you could rotate from landscape to portrait. I wonder whatever happened to them?

I'd need help with lifting my Samsung 1100DF if I were to tilt that heffalump!

terrie
11-05-2009, 12:41 PM
Bo...I deleted the notice left for your deleted post--just in case you were wondering where it went...'-}}


Terrie

Bo Aakerstrom
11-05-2009, 02:53 PM
Bo...I deleted the notice left for your deleted post--just in case you were wondering where it went...'-}}


Terrie

Didn't even realise I should get a notice...

terrie
11-05-2009, 03:04 PM
bo: Didn't even realise I should get a notice...When members delete a post, it leaves a "a post was deleted" message/trail but when forum staff deletes a post, we can make it go away with no trail...hmmmm....I was thinking the "delete post" message was visible to everyone but maybe it's not...I'll have to check on that...

Later...just discovered that you don't get a notice...it leaves a trail only the Brownies see...'-}}

Terrie

Mike
11-06-2009, 12:30 AM
Perhaps I'll just hold my laptop upside down instead.:)

Why not just take a bed into the office?

Cristen Gillespie
11-06-2009, 06:32 AM
Benwiggy: You misunderstand the term "destructive". I am not implying that the data is irreversibly degraded in any way --- but it is altered.

You're right. Data is altered in AI if you move objects around. No one should take the risk if they think they might be careless or distracted, but I can understand why the AI team hasn't rushed to create a rotate view. I imagine it would be welcome, but not as pressing to most AI users as it has been to ID and PS users.

Benwiggy: So while these "workarounds" are obviously available, they are not the same as the rotate view capability that the OP is looking for, which is to be welcomed.

Not in AI, I guess, if he worries about forgetting to get back to his original state. And now with up to 100 artboards possible in a single file, there's a greater chance of being distracted and missing what you do if you aren't very alert.

But it's not a workaround in either ID or PS. You're not altering any data in either of those programs, even temporarily. And yes, it's in CS4 that you'll find these. In ID it's a menu item. In PS, it's a tool (R) that resides below the Hand tool.