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ktinkel
06-11-2009, 08:27 AM
Eleven years ago I wrote in my MacWeek column: “Is graphic design dead? (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MWK/is_n27_v12/ai_20924552/) Maybe it’s just on hiatus.”

Do you agree today? Or do you think design has improved in the past decade?

Michael Rowley
06-11-2009, 11:44 AM
KT:
Printed pages are still strewn with typographic errors, including clotted letter-spacing and word spaces you could drive a truck through.Nut-quading was by no means unknown thirty years before you wrote that in 1998; and that was usually done by typesetters working for their living.

ktinkel
06-11-2009, 12:55 PM
KT:
Nut-quading was by no means unknown thirty years before you wrote that in 1998; and that was usually done by typesetters working for their living.Kind of beside the point.

Do you think graphic design is thriving today, compared to the period(s) before DTP?

terrie
06-11-2009, 01:11 PM
kt: Eleven years ago I wrote in my MacWeek column: “Is graphic design dead? (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0MWK/is_n27_v12/ai_20924552/) Maybe it’s just on hiatus.”That's the first time I've ever read a decent article using Find Articles...'-}}

Terrie

Steve Rindsberg
06-11-2009, 01:17 PM
Heh ... I always thought it was funny to hear designers-turned-DTPers moaning about how anybody with a computer and a copy of QuarkPageVentura suddenly thought they were qualified to put out a publication.

Why of course they were. In much the same way as the moaners were suddenly typesetters/separators/etc on the same set of qualifications.

Digital has "democratized" photography similarly.

"I did it myself" is the enemy of "I did it well" I guess.

Michael Rowley
06-11-2009, 04:14 PM
KT:
Kind of beside the pointNot if you meant that poor word spacing etc. was an indication of the decline of typesetting. All professional typesetters use DTP tools (what a silly expression that was: desk-top publishing); all amateur typesetters do too, of course, and some do it very well, and others . . .

But 'design' can mean practically anything, and it's difficult to judge, because just as design changes over the years, so do people's tastes. But I think that book covers and dust covers are nowadays atrocious, but perhaps that's because I'm an old fogey.

ktinkel
06-11-2009, 06:04 PM
That's the first time I've ever read a decent article using Find Articles...'-}}Er — what is Find Articles?

And should I say thank you? <g>

ktinkel
06-11-2009, 06:06 PM
Heh ... I always thought it was funny to hear designers-turned-DTPers moaning about how anybody with a computer and a copy of QuarkPageVentura suddenly thought they were qualified to put out a publication.

Why of course they were. In much the same way as the moaners were suddenly typesetters/separators/etc on the same set of qualifications.

Digital has "democratized" photography similarly.

"I did it myself" is the enemy of "I did it well" I guess.That is always the case. Clients who were notorious nitpickers when designers did the work often loved what they produced in-house.

But to be fair, designers were scared to death when they were first responsible for setting type. And bewildered — few thought to charge for the extra services they were providing, a little detail that rose up to bite them later.

terrie
06-11-2009, 06:40 PM
kt: Er — what is Find Articles?Well...I shouldn't have split the words-- findarticles.com is the base of the link you ref'd in your post and when I was working for Google, I'd get a task that would be a findarticles.com page and it usually sucked...so...


>> And should I say thank you? <g>

Yes! I meant that as a compliment...'-}}

Terrie

Steve Rindsberg
06-11-2009, 09:17 PM
>> Clients who were notorious nitpickers when designers did the work often loved what they produced in-house.

Been there, done that. Speaking of the clients from hell video, that was one of the worst. "Give us a break on this one, we'll sell the idea of your doing the work to the client and ..." you know the drill.

Well, I knew going in that the guy was so full of.... let's just say his eyes were dark brown. But I wanted to try the project on as a learning experience and portfolio piece.

They about drove me NUTS with all the nitpicky stuff ... the art directors felt threatened, dontcha know, and didn't want outsiders infringing on their territory. But the piece got done and looked quite nice.

Later they won some kind of award for it. Sent me a couple samples to shoot slides of.

One was the one I'd done; the other was one they'd done in house ... absolute crap. I couldn't believe they'd even included it in the awards submission with the other. Mind, I'm not taking credit for the way the first one looked ... I just executed the ADs layout and fixed stuff as requested. Apparently they didn't apply the same magnifying glass to their own work. Shame.

PeterArnel
06-12-2009, 09:25 AM
Hi Kathleen
I think its far from dead - although a lot of graphic design is now web based. Unlike in the past when designers visualised the concepts and then had to use technicians to create the design - in alot of cases having to dumb down the desegn because of cost or it just not being practical, DTP now has allowed even average designers to produce very complex designs very quickly. A simple example of this is running headlines - which in the cut and paste days were all over the place - now they use templates and its no problem. As far as typeseting is concerned - I doubt whether any of us want to go back to back the old square blocks of text.
Peter

ktinkel
06-12-2009, 09:40 AM
Your problem was most likely that you worked for Art Directors. I never did. I assisted a couple of good designers for a while, then set off on my own. Since I really loved designing reading matter (as opposed to ads), no one bothered me. Except some clients, of course.

ktinkel
06-12-2009, 09:44 AM
… DTP now has allowed even average designers to produce very complex designs very quickly.But are these complex designs more effective? Easier to read? More likely to sell a product or service?

That is the level of design that now seems gone. A complex solution can solve some tricky design problems brilliantly, but it more often seems like a virtuoso effect, like a violinist playing Flight of the Butterfly, all flash and flourishes!

ktinkel
06-12-2009, 10:07 AM
Well...I shouldn't have split the words-- findarticles.com is the base of the link you ref'd in your post and when I was working for Google, I'd get a task that would be a findarticles.com page and it usually sucked...so...It is very strange. I do not own the rights to those Print Clearly columns, so was glad to know they were on-line. Only most are not, evidently. I had actually the best luck in findarticles, in fact — it produced links to five columns (http://findarticles.com/p/search/?qta=0&qt=print+clearly%20tinkel&tb=art&qf=all&x=0&y=0)(out of 15), better even than searching at bNet. I guess that means the others have been lost, or are premium only.

Too bad — it is fun to read old notions and, especially, predictions.

Thank you. :)

terrie
06-12-2009, 11:16 AM
kt: I had actually the best luck in findarticles, in fact — it produced links to five columns (http://findarticles.com/p/search/?qta=0&qt=print+clearly%20tinkel&tb=art&qf=all&x=0&y=0)(out of 15), better even than searching at bNet.Yes...I saw those when I clicked on the link for your name which oddly enough today does not show the same list it showed yesterday not sure why...

Terrie

ktinkel
06-12-2009, 12:27 PM
Yes...I saw those when I clicked on the link for your name which oddly enough today does not show the same list it showed yesterday not sure why...Me, neither.

I believe that BNet is what used to be called ZNet (for Ziff, which was the publisher of MacWeek). But perhaps it is just some aggregator service.

Steve Rindsberg
06-13-2009, 10:36 AM
Your problem was most likely that you worked for Art Directors. I never did. I assisted a couple of good designers for a while, then set off on my own. Since I really loved designing reading matter (as opposed to ads), no one bothered me. Except some clients, of course.
Hole in one, KT. I loved (and still love) working with good designers.

There were a few ADs who were a real hoot to work with but on the whole ... no.

ktinkel
06-13-2009, 12:59 PM
Hole in one, KT. I loved (and still love) working with good designers.

There were a few ADs who were a real hoot to work with but on the whole ... no.Some of my best friends were ADs. But they were not my clients! :D

PeterArnel
06-13-2009, 03:05 PM
kathleen - the same would have been said of designs in the 50's when they used litho stones. The one thing we have to accept is that as we get older all we can do is design for people the same age group and not critise others of a different era. We have had our day
Peter

ktinkel
06-13-2009, 06:41 PM
kathleen - the same would have been said of designs in the 50's when they used litho stones. The one thing we have to accept is that as we get older all we can do is design for people the same age group and not critise others of a different era. We have had our day
PeterOuch! I will have to think about that! :)

Steve Rindsberg
06-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Some of my best friends were ADs. But they were not my clients! :D
And I've been known to socialize with lawyers. Same kinda deal. <g>

Benwiggy
06-17-2009, 07:46 AM
Graphic Design died in 1996. Its last act was the creation of the poster artwork for the film Trainspotting. :D

Steve Rindsberg
06-17-2009, 08:15 AM
This?

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm2258738432/tt0117951

ROFL!

And here I was expecting a reference to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XrvpEIiC1w

Note to the innocent:
NSFW and possibily the vilest (funniest) thing ever put on film.

Michael Rowley
06-17-2009, 12:59 PM
Steve:
NSFW and possibily the vilest (funniest) thing ever put on filmNSFW and possibily the vilest (funniest) thing ever put on filmIt's also based on a completely false premise: morphia (e.g. as laudanum) constipates, heroin doesn't. That's why UK medical practitioners use heroin for preference—apart from the fact that it's more effective.

Steve Rindsberg
06-17-2009, 07:28 PM
Steve:
It's also based on a completely false premise: morphia (e.g. as laudanum) constipates, heroin doesn't. That's why UK medical practitioners use heroin for preference—apart from the fact that it's more effective.
Michael,

That's true. Here paregoric used to be available w/o prescription in some states while I was young. Much less concentrated than laundanum but simlarly used.

All the same, remind me not to go to movies with you. ;-)

Benwiggy
06-18-2009, 12:34 AM
Mikey Forrester played poorly by the novelist himself in that clip.

No, I was thinking more of the original UK poster. Ever since then, UK designers have defaulted to Helvetica Neue without a moment's consideration for any other font.

It's "Times New Roman", if you went to St. Martins.:p

Steve Rindsberg
06-18-2009, 11:27 AM
Times New Roman. How *original*. ;-)