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Bo Aakerstrom
10-14-2008, 02:48 AM
A hand drawn newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/oct/13/pressandpublishing3).

I'm not suggesting that we all start using nothing but pen and paper (my work would be kind of hard to read since my handwriting sucks) but it is thought provoking.

ktinkel
10-14-2008, 07:39 AM
A hand drawn newspaper (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/greenslade/2008/oct/13/pressandpublishing3).

I'm not suggesting that we all start using nothing but pen and paper (my work would be kind of hard to read since my handwriting sucks) but it is thought provoking.It is lovely!

Hand-drawn and written pages of various sorts were fairly common in early letterpress-printing days. People had pen and ink, but no rub-down type. Typewriters had fabric ribbons which made fuzzy impressions. So you would often see small booklets, ad leaflets, tests, and other pieces all done by hand and printed at a small print shop (or on a mimeograph machine — but that meant you had to inscribe everything in a waxy original, which was more difficult).

John Spragens
10-14-2008, 04:23 PM
Another option for mimeo stencils, which I used in Japan, was a bit like a fax machine. You'd feed your paper original into a scanner, and on the output side, a head with needles would perforate a thin plastic stencil.

ktinkel
10-14-2008, 06:23 PM
Another option for mimeo stencils, which I used in Japan, was a bit like a fax machine. You'd feed your paper original into a scanner, and on the output side, a head with needles would perforate a thin plastic stencil.Oh, yes — I remember coveting that thing? (Did its name start with G?)

LoisWakeman
10-15-2008, 01:58 AM
Are you familiar with Alfred Wainwright (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/enjoy_cumbria/famous_people/wainwright.shtml)'s pictorial rambling guides? They are beautifully handwritten and illustrated - like more presentable versions of the field notebooks I used as a geology student.

Bo Aakerstrom
10-15-2008, 02:36 AM
Can't say I am. Couldn't see any examples when following the link (might just be me) but it sounds like a great idea. Too many personal publications look impersonal these days. Following the latest design trends isn't always (if ever...) the best solution.

Michael Rowley
10-15-2008, 07:04 AM
KT:

Did its name start with G?If it was Gestaetner, yes.

Steve Rindsberg
10-15-2008, 07:19 AM
Or in the states, Gestetner. When it comes to umlauts, we arelouts.

ktinkel
10-15-2008, 09:27 AM
Are you familiar with Alfred Wainwright (http://www.bbc.co.uk/cumbria/enjoy_cumbria/famous_people/wainwright.shtml)'s pictorial rambling guides? They are beautifully handwritten and illustrated - like more presentable versions of the field notebooks I used as a geology student.No, but I can see that they must be wonderful.

I have several books on graphic design and/or typography that were hand-written. One famous one, How Typography Works: And Why It Is Important (Fernand Baudin) was first hand-written on a blackboard. Another book from 1978, when this sort of thing was fairly common, More Studio Tips for Artists and Graphic Designers (Bill Gray), is written in quite good calligraphy and illustrated by the (English) author. (See sample page, attached.)

I have others but they are being shy.

ktinkel
10-15-2008, 09:30 AM
Can't say I am. Couldn't see any examples when following the link (might just be me) but it sounds like a great idea. Too many personal publications look impersonal these days. Following the latest design trends isn't always (if ever...) the best solution.Too true. Nowadays, any new thing is quickly copied, and everything begins to look alike.

Using writing rather than type can make ads really pop out on a page. You see this every so often (but if it became common, it would be less effective).

ktinkel
10-15-2008, 09:31 AM
If it was Gestaetner, yes.Could be.

One of the old-technology things I really coveted for a time.

Michael Rowley
10-15-2008, 09:40 AM
Steve:

Or in the states, Gestetner. When it comes to umlauts, we arelouts.David Gestetner was of Hungrian nationality, and might have not used the spelling with ä; but until I looked it up I didn't know that. I must remember not to paint the lily.

Michael Rowley
10-15-2008, 09:45 AM
KT:

illustrated by the (English) authorI wonder if he's ever seen a window envelope.

ktinkel
10-15-2008, 12:10 PM
I wonder if he's ever seen a window envelope.Almost surely — they were common back in the 70s. What made you ask?

Michael Rowley
10-15-2008, 01:37 PM
KT:

Almost surely — they were common back in the 70s. What made you ask?Now I wonder whether I should put the same question to you! Of course window envelopes were common in 1978, and in the years before that and now; but windows in window envelopes don't look anything like the artist has imagined them. But window envelopes don'seem as common in USA as they are in Europe; do they conflict with US postal regulations?

ktinkel
10-15-2008, 01:48 PM
Now I wonder whether I should put the same question to you! Of course window envelopes were common in 1978, and in the years before that and now; but windows in window envelopes don't look anything like the artist has imagined them. But window envelopes don'seem as common in USA as they are in Europe; do they conflict with US postal regulations?Not that I know of. I get lots of them. But they do cost a bit more.

The window does not usually like the one in the drawing, but he wasn’t trying to give designers a pattern — just to summarize the envelope category.

In any event we were talking about written, not typeset, publications, not the content.

Steve Rindsberg
10-15-2008, 07:06 PM
Steve:

David Gestetner was of Hungrian nationality, and might have not used the spelling with ä; but until I looked it up I didn't know that. I must remember not to paint the lily.
Not even a nice shade of silver? ;-)

Steve Rindsberg
10-15-2008, 07:10 PM
KT:

Now I wonder whether I should put the same question to you! Of course window envelopes were common in 1978, and in the years before that and now; but windows in window envelopes don't look anything like the artist has imagined them. But window envelopes don'seem as common in USA as they are in Europe; do they conflict with US postal regulations?
I've never sent invoices or paid bills using anything else. People pay me, I don't get dunned ... it seems to be working. I'd say the USPS is happy with them.

The only alternative I have to offer them is hand-addressed envelopes. They don't know just *how* happy they are.

Michael Rowley
10-16-2008, 05:17 AM
Steve:

I've never sent invoices or paid bills using anything elseThey're good for letters too (if they're typed). The only trouble is that they're often sourced in a different country from the one whose standard your using to get the name and address in the right place.

Steve Rindsberg
10-16-2008, 08:08 AM
Steve:

They're good for letters too (if they're typed). The only trouble is that they're often sourced in a different country from the one whose standard your using to get the name and address in the right place.
I imagine it varies greatly from one place to the next, but FWIW, we've never had any problems sending mail to or receiving mail from Japan, despite the fact that the addressing standards are quite different and the sender always abides by their country's standards.

If each country demanded strict adherance to its own standards, international mail would all but cease to function.

On the other hand, it'd create a new market for software that could take standard address data and format it to meet different national standards.

Michael Rowley
10-20-2008, 09:24 AM
Steve:

I imagine it varies greatly from one place to the next, but FWIW, we've never had any problems sending mail to or receiving mail from Japan, despite the fact that the addressing standards are quite different and the sender always abides by their country's standards.The difficulty is not knowing where your supplier is sourcing his window envelopes, since they're seldom supplied as BS—— etc. I think the Postal Union has some specifications for the positions of addresses that allow them to be machine-processed both in the sender's country and the recipient's country, but they are frequently not enough to get the address position to suit the window position exactly. If you're talking about ISO DL envelopes, there are alternative ways of folding A4 paper: since it's 297 mm high, one alternative is to divide the folds symmetrically, so that there are three 99-mm panels; another is to fold so as to give two 100-mm panels and one 97-mm panel—the one bearing the address.

LoisWakeman
10-20-2008, 09:31 AM
True - his executors must be hot on copyright!

http://www.huckmagazine.com/blog/legendary-books-alfred/ gives you a flavour.

LoisWakeman
10-20-2008, 09:33 AM
Very nice. Once uponce a time (as we used to say as kids), I had a fine italic hand - but years of scrawling, arthritis and lack of practice means my handwriting is quite crabbed these days.

ktinkel
10-20-2008, 12:59 PM
Very nice. Once uponce a time (as we used to say as kids), I had a fine italic hand - but years of scrawling, arthritis and lack of practice means my handwriting is quite crabbed these days.Mine too — some days I have trouble writing a convincing signature. The bank is forever calling to query whether it was really me. :p

I used to alternate between a tolerably good demi-uncial and chancery cursive. Every so often I notice it in the flyleaf of an old book, and am shocked.

Steve Rindsberg
10-20-2008, 02:21 PM
You're going all *specific* on me, Michael. <g>

But I expect that while postal services dislike envelopes that don't permit machine sorting, they have to cope. And seem to, at least here and in Japan.