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Michael Rowley
02-21-2006, 10:09 AM
Perhaps it will work this time.

No good: file is too big to upload. I can't make it as small as the limit (which you're told after you've tried.

annc
02-21-2006, 10:32 AM
Perhaps it will work this time.

No good: file is too big to upload. I can't make it as small as the limit (which you're told after you've tried.What sort of a file is it, and what size? We can change the limits in the software.

Michael Rowley
02-21-2006, 11:15 AM
What sort of a file is it, and what size? We can change the limits in the software.
Ann:

The Word file, testfont.doc, that I tried to upload was way too big: 683 kbyte. It's necessarily large, because it contains the embedded fonts, but even before the fonts were embedded the size was about 37 kbyte: Word isn't noted for small files! Zipping hardly helps, as fonts don't compress well.

It's a pity, because although I'm convinced the file has embedded fonts recognized by Word (I could open it myself, after carefully deactivating minionpr.ttf, and all the ligatures were visible), previous exchanges of documents gave negative results, i.e. the man that received the document thought to contain Minion Pro reported lots of 'boxes'. I should have liked to get the verdict of more font-savvy people.

Steve Rindsberg
02-21-2006, 12:45 PM
I'm hardly a Word wiz, but if you want to email it to me, I'll have a look.

steve at-in-a-circle steve rindsberg dot com concatenate and punctuate and you'll find me.

Michael Rowley
02-21-2006, 01:32 PM
Steve:

'if you want to email it to me, I'll have a look'

Thank you: I've already sent the file along the wires to you, and it'll be with you any day now. It doesn't need a Word-whizz, just someone that can tell letters from quadrangles.

Steve Rindsberg
02-21-2006, 03:29 PM
Steve:

'if you want to email it to me, I'll have a look'

Thank you: I've already sent the file along the wires to you, and it'll be with you any day now. It doesn't need a Word-whizz, just someone that can tell letters from quadrangles.

I've attached a screenshot of what I see in Word 2003.

On another machine, I selected all the text and changed it to Arial Unicode, which fixed the problems with the words in the top row. The rest of the words/characters were still ... er ... quadrangulated.

On both computers, the file opens read-only.

Now let's send this and see if the attachment worked.

Michael Rowley
02-22-2006, 05:29 AM
Steve:

Thanks a lot: now everyone can see the intended result of opening the test file.

As far as I know, Arial Unicode has no ligatures apart from the usual pair, fl & fi (which Georgia has too); unless you took extraordinary pains, attempts to change the font work with every letter except the ligatures, which remain Minion Pro. It appears that in Word 2003 the font is exceptionally sticky. The only way I could get all the letters Georgia in the second table was to go to a completely different style first, then back to the intended style.

Michael Rowley
02-22-2006, 12:54 PM
Steve:

'Arial Unicode has no ligatures apart from the usual pair'

Correction: Arial Unicode has all of them provided in Unicode, but my test text used a few ligatures that are in the PUA in a few Adobe OT fonts; all the s.c. and o.s. numerals are also from the PUA.

Steve Rindsberg
02-22-2006, 03:46 PM
One little trick that comes in handy is to save as HTML then edit the font references within the HTML and finally open the HTML back into Word.

That doesn't change what I see here however. I don't thing those ligatures are present in Arial Unicode. But that's not the issue, is it? The main point is that it does seem to work correctly wit the embedded font (though the text itself looks ragged compared with the same text in Georgia)

Steve Rindsberg
02-22-2006, 03:47 PM
Steve:

'Arial Unicode has no ligatures apart from the usual pair'

Correction: Arial Unicode has all of them provided in Unicode, but my test text used a few ligatures that are in the PUA in a few Adobe OT fonts; all the s.c. and o.s. numerals are also from the PUA.
That makes sense ... I went looking for the missing glyphs in Character Map but didn't find them.

Michael Rowley
02-23-2006, 07:42 AM
Steve:

'The main point is that it does seem to work correctly wit the embedded font'

Actually, both Minion Pro and Georgia are embeddded in fontest.doc: Minion Pro has all the glyphs used, but Georgia lacks most of the ligatures (and there is one in every word), all small capitals, and all old-style numerals. The Georgia is there to show what would have happened if the Minion Pro had not been embedded.

The test document (a) confirms that the extension OTF (the only one Adobe will use) does not allow the font to be embedded in Word, although the font file contains the embedding permission, and shows that (b) if the extension is TTF, Word does embed the font. It seems that both Adobe and Microsoft are being pigheaded.

I have now sent a file containing many numerals to nine people: the file would have contained the numerals (and text) in minionpr.otf, which is non-embeddable, but I made sure that minionpr.ttf was used, which, thanks to your help, I know embeds nicely. No one has complained yet.