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annc
01-15-2006, 12:24 PM
Working in isolation as a home-based designer has its pluses and minuses, as we all know.

One of the minuses that crops up now and then is how to pronounce the names of some typefaces. We've had discussions here at different times on how to pronounce Arial, but what about Alcalde? Belwe? Imago?

Those spring to my mind. I'm sure there are others.

ktinkel
01-15-2006, 02:09 PM
… how to pronounce the names of some typefaces.To the extent I can approximate sounds here:

Belve — BEL-veh

Imago — i-MAW-go

Benguiat — BENG-ett

Eurostile — U-ro-steel-eh

Fenice — feh-NEECH-ay

Novarese — NO-va-RAY-zay

Walbaum — VAWL-baowm

Mixage — mix-ASHZE

annc
01-15-2006, 02:21 PM
To the extent I can approximate sounds here:

See – we do need a phonetic font in here. http://desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/images/smilies/smile.gif

I'm glad you added some more, because I thought some of those were straightforward, and they aren't.

I would never have got Imago right. I was guessing IM-ago or im-AH-go.

And I've been pronouncing Belwe as BEL-vuh for nearly 20 years.

So thank you for all of those.

Michael Rowley
01-15-2006, 04:24 PM
KT:

Very good! But I think you've slipped up on Imago: it's German, I think, but the English word is the same, so it's pronounced as in German (and most European languages) or in English (or American). And you think the German typographer Walbaum should be pronounced VAWL- instead of the correct VAAL-.
8/10—Good, but could do better.

iamback
01-15-2006, 04:40 PM
Very good! But I think you've slipped up on Imago: it's German, I think, but the English word is the same, so it's pronounced as in German (and most European languages) or in English (or American).To me, it's Latin and I'd pronounce it as I've been taught to pronounce Latin - classical Latin, that is (I have no idea what church Latin would make of it). i-MAH-go (a clearer 'a') is how I'd render the pronunciation. ;-)

Arial is similar, it looks like "Aeriel" to me so it brings up an association with a Greek/Latin god of the air (Aer) - so Arial would become AH-ri-al then, at least when I pronounce it, both in English and in Dutch.

And you think the German typographer Walbaum should be pronounced VAWL- instead of the correct VAAL-.Yes, we do need a phonetic font here, but keep in mind that the German (and Dutch, for that matter) "W" is more rounded than the English "V" but less rounded than the English "W".

Mar-yo-LANE ;)

Michael Rowley
01-15-2006, 05:08 PM
Marjolein:

classical Latin, that is (I have no idea what church Latin would make of it). i-MAH-go (a clearer 'a')

Classical Latin as you would have learned it is pronounced by me (who was taught the 'modern' pronunciation) in a similar way, and it is the way the French, German, & Italian would pronounce it. Church Latin is just the same as Italian Latin, with variations according to your language.

the German (and Dutch, for that matter) "W" is more rounded than the English "V" but less rounded than the English "W"

The English 'V' sound is near enough; German according to Siebs is difficult to achieve—even by Germans.

annc
01-15-2006, 06:37 PM
Mar-yo-LANE ;)Well, I got that one right in my head. Used my very rusty high school/university German as a basis...

marlene
01-16-2006, 11:29 AM
Helvetica Neue. (Noy-uh?)

Officina (see-na or chi-na?)

Veljovic

Fraktur

Aachen (I can't pronounce my own last name, so I probably can't pronounce Aachen correctly)

And those inscrutable Windoze system fonts:

Gautami
Haettenschweiler
Sylfaen


mxh

Franca
01-16-2006, 11:54 AM
Aachen (I can't pronounce my own last name, so I probably can't pronounce Aachen correctly)Well, if it's the same as the place name ...

AH-khen ? At least that's how it's pronounced on the dressage shows I watch. ;)

As for the others, I could tell you how I'd pronounce them, but I don't know if they'd even be close to correct!

ktinkel
01-16-2006, 12:00 PM
Helvetica Neue (Noy-uh?) — Yes, more or less.

Officina (see-na or chi-na?) — Probably see-na; from Germany, not Italy.

Veljovic — VEL-yo-vic (I think that’s about how he says it).

Fraktur — FROCK-tur

annc
01-16-2006, 01:09 PM
Fraktur — FROCK-turare you sure? I would have expected it to be pronounced FRUCK-tur, as it's German.

iamback
01-16-2006, 01:56 PM
are you sure? I would have expected it to be pronounced FRUCK-tur, as it's German.Since it's German, I'd pronounce it frac-TOOR (poor rendering) with an "open" a (ah!, not aaah...) and TOOR like poor ;-)

ktinkel
01-16-2006, 02:43 PM
are you sure? I would have expected it to be pronounced FRUCK-tur, as it's German.No (at least not in type circles, it’s not a u sound). Marjolein probably has it right, although I do not usually hear it with the accent so heavily on the second syllable.

Realize that type people are not necessarily linguistic scholars, though they are an international crowd. I have heard varied spellings.

I am pretty sure about fonts named after people, especially if they are living. Or the ones named by living people, for that matter.

Michael Rowley
01-16-2006, 04:17 PM
KT:

it’s not a u sound

It's not, but it's rather like a U as spoken in southern England. Ann was probably right: these sounds are best conveyed by the IPS characters. American understanding of German vowels might be more or less strongly by Yiddish—and that varies quite a bit—and by German speakers that don't speak according to Bühnenaussprache (the sort of German that's taught to singers and German stage actors).

Norbert
01-16-2006, 07:02 PM
Oh goody... this is always fun.

During a visit at Berthold in West Germany the pronounciation I heard for Imago was: ee-MAH-go

Ephraim usually likes to be called: BEN-gaht
but in Spain like to be called: Ben-GI-yaht (because it is of Moreno origin)

For Jovica Veljović it's either Yo-vi-sa or Yo-vi-ca (I can't remember which) Vel-yoh-vich

For years and years I've pronounced Lubalin as: lu-BAL-in
But I've heard Ed Benguiat say: LOOB-alin
I've said CHWAAST for Seymour Chwast,
but Ed Benguiat says CHWAIST as in "waist"
Your best bet is to believe Ed before you believe me.

You've probably did this one long ago: pen-yoe for Peignot

I've heard first year graphic students say: hel-va-TEE-ka

ktinkel
01-17-2006, 05:51 AM
For years and years I've pronounced Lubalin as: lu-BAL-in
But I've heard Ed Benguiat say: LOOB-alin

Your best bet is to believe Ed before you believe me.I guess! But isn’t it odd there is so much confusion about how to pronounce Lubalin’s last name? I would swear I have heard it both ways even among those who knew him.

I've heard first year graphic students say: hel-va-TEE-kaGroan.

Of course, when I worked for a newspaper back in the 1950s, we always called one of our favorite headline types bo-DEEN-ee. (I was mortified by that when I began to learn about type, but have since learned that that was the name of a knockoff common on the Ludlow.)