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annc
11-06-2005, 10:27 AM
Sure it could, in the land where they have Summer Christmas Sales! That billboard made me want to read upside down on my last visit to Melbourne.Well, Melbourne has a Mediterranean climate with cold, wet winters, so it's not likely to happen there. ;)

Summer sales at Christmas seem perfectly normal to me. What has always seemed odd, and I've lived here all my life, is the snow and rugged up Santa imagery used in all commercial promotions, Christmas cards etc. And the childhood Christmas lunches, consisting of roast chicken (we couldn't afford turkey, and even chicken was a rare treat), baked vegetables, and hot plum pudding. With the temperature almost always over 100ºF and humidity around 65%. My sister decided to revive this a few years ago, and sure enough, it was a stinking hot day. I told her that if she ever planned that again, she would eat it alone.

Cristen Gillespie
11-07-2005, 07:13 AM
With the temperature almost always over 100ºF and humidity around 65%. My sister decided to revive this a few years ago, and sure enough, it was a stinking hot day. I told her that if she ever planned that again, she would eat it alone.

Lots of people don't understand why I hate "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas." I can still remember sitting on the wood floor at school, about 5 or 6, the teacher (from back East) going through all the jolly snowy Xmas songs, and telling us how Christmas in the desert just wasn't real.

Yes, I was wearing a sundress, and we aren't always upside down and backwards at Christmas. I went swimming that Xmas, and it was at least as much fun as trudging through slush. When we were forced to sing White Christmas on top of a whole morning of songs about snow, and teacher's memories of "real" Christmases past, I developed a sudden and severe aversion to the whole thing.

To this day, that's a song I can't abide. I am not now dreaming, and never have dreamt, of a White Christmas, unless they're talking about a sand-blown whiteout on the road to Palm Springs. LOL

ElyseC
11-07-2005, 07:56 AM
To this day, that's a song I can't abide. I am not now dreaming, and never have dreamt, of a White Christmas, unless they're talking about a sand-blown whiteout on the road to Palm Springs. LOLDunno why, exactly, but that somehow reminds me of an experience my Wyoming born & raised husband had when he was in college in the San Gabriel Valley in the mid 1970s.

Bruce went back to Wyoming at Thanksgiving to visit his grandparents in Lander. (Note: Lander is a place where in early June you often see snow at the bottom of the deeper roadside ditches, the leftovers of an average central Wyoming winter.) He wasn't there long when warnings came of a bad blizzard bearing down on the region. His grandparents advised him to get on the road back to California ASAP, so he wouldn't get snowed in with them for who-knows-how-long.

He took off immediately. The weather was bad, the visibility horrid and, little did he and the caravan of other vehicles know it but as soon as they got onto the next highway, within 15 minutes the state police came along and closed the gates to it. Too late for Bruce and the rest, because they were already out there fighting their way onward. Eventually they ran into already-closed highways and the group of them (stopping somewhere all together) decided to drive east into Nebraska, then drop down and cross back west to go through Colorado.

It snowed and blew terribly the entire several day trip, even all the way through Utah, and didn't really let up until he got close to the California border. He was exhausted and very sick of snow, but he decided he'd treat himself to a more scenic route than the usual Las Vegas > Cajon Pass way and went up through the mountains.

Turns out a snow storm up there had just happened and he was astounded to see crazed Californians piling snow in their pickup trucks, packing it on the roofs and bumpers of their vehicles, then driving like heck down into the metro areas to dump the load onto their lawns. He told his Wyoming relatives and they were all left shaking their heads. <g>

Cristen Gillespie
11-15-2005, 07:52 AM
He's not dreaming of a white Christmas, that's for sure. I'm surprised he went back to snow country after that trip, but perhaps he felt it was safer to "be" there than to travel to and from. ;-)

Every winter in Benicia we'd look for the snowman one of our neighbors always brought back snow for from Tahoe. We could judge our winter by how long the snowman lasted. One winter it actually lasted 5 days, at least as a lump of snow.

ElyseC
11-15-2005, 11:21 AM
He's not dreaming of a white Christmas, that's for sure. I'm surprised he went back to snow country after that trip, but perhaps he felt it was safer to "be" there than to travel to and from. ;-)No, I don't think he returned for Christmas that year. Still go visit Wyoming though, because of family there and we think it's beautiful, wide open country. We don't travel there in winter, however, and the locals don't do much wintery travel either, if they can help it. <g>

Cristen Gillespie
11-16-2005, 07:09 AM
No, I don't think he returned for Christmas that year. Still go visit Wyoming though, because of family there and we think it's beautiful, wide open country. We don't travel there in winter, however, and the locals don't do much wintery travel either, if they can help it. <g>

I love all that big Western country, but I've never been anytime but summer. The winters north to south in that territory are mind-boggling and definitely scary, at least to someone who thinks snow comes on little butterfly wings and disappears five minutes later<G>

ElyseC
11-16-2005, 09:03 AM
I love all that big Western country, but I've never been anytime but summer. The winters north to south in that territory are mind-boggling and definitely scary, at least to someone who thinks snow comes on little butterfly wings and disappears five minutes later<G>A Brazilian friend of mine, about age 45-50 at the time, was visiting here one winter, his first time experiencing the season. Note: the closest most Brazilians ever get to snow is seeing it high on a mountain top far far away. It's tropical year round where people actually live.

We were in a cafe talking when it started to snow, the first of the season. My friend was so excited, he jumped up, threw on his coat and ran outside. He then just stood there in total wonder and silence. After half a minute he said in amazement (and in Portuguese, but I'll translate <g>), "It doesn't make any sound!" Falling rain makes a noise, so he always imagined snow to do so, too. <g>

annc
11-16-2005, 01:42 PM
My first (and only) experience of falling snow waas at Lake Louise. I'd been staying in Banff, where there was some oldish snow on the ground and had gone to Lake Louise on a tour bus. The lake was just freezing over (it was early November) and the snow up there looked more like the Christmas card stuff I'd expected. While we were enjoying the Canadian version of a Devonshire tea at the Chateau Lake Louise, it started to snow, so like your Brazilian friend, I rushed out into the garden to enjoy it. The bus driver was very patient when the other passengers explained that I was from the tropics and had never seen snow before, but he did eventually send them to explain that the bus would leave without me if I didn't come NOW!

annc
11-16-2005, 01:54 PM
Lots of people don't understand why I hate "I'm dreaming of a white Christmas." I can still remember sitting on the wood floor at school, about 5 or 6, the teacher (from back East) going through all the jolly snowy Xmas songs, and telling us how Christmas in the desert just wasn't real.The poor thing was probably feeling very homesick, but it still wasn't fair to dump her emotional baggage on a room full of infants!

ElyseC
11-16-2005, 07:04 PM
...it started to snow, so like your Brazilian friend, I rushed out into the garden to enjoy it. The bus driver was very patient when the other passengers explained that I was from the tropics and had never seen snow before, but he did eventually send them to explain that the bus would leave without me if I didn't come NOW!<G> Glad you got to experience it! Having grown up with the stuff, its novelty had long worn off (I was 19 at the time), but seeing the scene through my friend's eyes, experiencing the wonder he felt to the core of his being, gave me a new perspective -- on a lot of things!

That was when I began to notice and appreciate more of nature and other things I had been taking for granted. It was a year later I moved to California and had to live without real autumn and real winter for the next 26 years.

The temps right now outside are about 20F with a wind chill ("feels like") temperature of only 7F, but I'm very glad to be back to four real seasons. Say, I just learned something from my high school teacher sis who is still out there in southern California. In our phone chat today she told me science has found that living in four distinct seasons is very good for the brain -- the seasonal change and associated changes it requires of daily life keep the brain stimulated and active. Gee, maybe our moving back here was a very "smart" move indeed! ;)

annc
11-16-2005, 09:16 PM
...she told me science has found that living in four distinct seasons is very good for the brain -- the seasonal change and associated changes it requires of daily life keep the brain stimulated and active.Oh, great! A perfect excuse for my brain fade - almost 59 years in a subtropical environment where the temperature rarely differs by more than about 6ºC over a 24 hour period, and not much more than that between winter and summer.

Stephen Owades
11-16-2005, 10:02 PM
I don't know if you've run into the verse that begins Irving Berlin's White Christmas, or know the original context for the song in the movie Holiday Inn. It's of course not a "jolly snowy Christmas song" at all, but rather reflects the nostalgia of the singer--and its (Jewish) composer--stuck in sunny California at Christmastime. Here's that verse:

The sun is shining, the grass is green
The orange and palm trees sway
There's never been such a day
In Beverly Hills, L.A. [Beverly Hills is actually not a part of Los Angeles]
But it's December the twenty-fourth
And I am longing to be up north

ElyseC
11-17-2005, 06:02 AM
Works well for alibis, yes! ;)

Michael Rowley
11-17-2005, 07:18 AM
Stephen:

And I am longing to be up north

I live much further north than anyone in USA, and we seldom get snow at Christmas. Of course, that should have been, 'I am longing for a Continental climate rather than a Maritime one'; but I suppose it would be difficult to fit that into two syllables.

Steve Rindsberg
11-17-2005, 03:43 PM
Works well for alibis, yes! ;)
Hmmm. That'd make a nice t-shirt:

Will work for alibis

ktinkel
11-17-2005, 04:39 PM
I live much further north than anyone in USA, and we seldom get snow at Christmas.Huh? I grew up in Anchorage, and it was further north than Cambridge, MA.

In fact, Judy Miner lives somewhere in Vermont — that has to be further north than Cambridge, no?

But if you are talking about New England (exclusive of Vermont and northern New Hampshire and Maine), most of us do not see snow by Thanksgiving, even by Christmas.

However, this year, all bets are off. We had a near-tropical Fall; who knows what the winter will bring?

JVegVT
11-17-2005, 07:51 PM
But if you are talking about New England (exclusive of Vermont and northern New Hampshire and Maine), most of us do not see snow by Thanksgiving, even by Christmas.
We had three inches of snow in late October this year. Fortunately, it was all melted three days later. Since we live in what is sometimes called "the Banana Belt," we were surprised we got that much snow when places around us had just a trace.

I *hope* the weather will be good the day after Thanksgiving because our daughter and her family will be driving here from three hours south of us. We don't want them to come if the roads are bad. On Thanksgiving Day my mother, my husband, and I are going for dinner at my cousin's, 20 miles away. He is my second cousin and I hadn't met him until about three weeks ago. He used to live in Wyoming but his wife was from the East and they decided to move out this way. He is a pharmacist at the hospital. My first cousin once removed and her husband were visiting their son (my second cousin) and my mother took us all out for lunch. We hadn't seen my first cousin in over 50 years. Visiting extended family on a holiday is pretty much a new experience for us. My mother, at 87, is delighted.
--Judy M.

PeterArnel
11-18-2005, 03:56 AM
Robin
I have just been talking about this to me pre press department- we cannt understand it and are concerned Is it possible to recreate the problem and send me a pdf to check it out
Peter

George
11-18-2005, 04:37 AM
I love all that big Western country, but I've never been anytime but summer. The winters north to south in that territory are mind-boggling and definitely scary, at least to someone who thinks snow comes on little butterfly wings and disappears five minutes later<G>

Wyoming is some place very special. One's got to be there to understand it. You really don't even notice the winters. I just couldn't figure out how to make any money when I was there. (I understand the royal family of the UK has a ranch in Sheridan. Smart people).

Regards,

George

Michael Rowley
11-18-2005, 05:44 AM
KT:

I grew up in Anchorage, and it was further north than Cambridge, MA

You seem to be replying to Stephen O., but I do live in about the same latitude as Cambridge—the town on the Cam, not its much younger namesake. And naming places in Alaska is cheating, because you don't live there any more. New England has a mainly maritime climate, though it still doesn't benefit from the Gulf Stream.

BigJohnD
11-21-2005, 03:05 PM
There's no snow here but it's colder than usual; freezing at night and just above during the 8 hours of daylight here at 53°+N.

The fog today was bad, and a distinct lack of wind too.

With all the salt and grit on the roads, my car is absolutely filthy despite going through a car was last Friday. Never mind, it was very cosy in the Bear & Staff (http://www.merseypub.com/guide/pu36.htm), supping traditional beers and eating good food.

ktinkel
11-21-2005, 05:21 PM
There's no snow here but it's colder than usual; freezing at night and just above during the 8 hours of daylight here at 53°+N.No snow yet (and good thing: we were air conditioning a couple of weeks ago!).

But they are threatening to snow on us for Thanksgiving (Thursday). I am still wearing my sandals (with socks, but still!).

Guess we need to prepare.

Cristen Gillespie
11-22-2005, 06:29 AM
Say, I just learned something from my high school teacher sis who is still out there in southern California. In our phone chat today she told me science has found that living in four distinct seasons is very good for the brain -- the seasonal change and associated changes it requires of daily life keep the brain stimulated and active. Gee, maybe our moving back here was a very "smart" move indeed! ;)

Must be why we Californians are all so laid back and clueless. LOL

Cristen Gillespie
11-22-2005, 06:33 AM
I don't know if you've run into the verse that begins Irving Berlin's White Christmas, or know the original context for the song in the movie Holiday Inn. It's of course not a "jolly snowy Christmas song" at all, but rather reflects the nostalgia of the singer--and its (Jewish) composer--stuck in sunny California at Christmastime. Here's that verse:

The sun is shining, the grass is green
The orange and palm trees sway
There's never been such a day
In Beverly Hills, L.A. [Beverly Hills is actually not a part of Los Angeles]
But it's December the twenty-fourth
And I am longing to be up north

I don't know if I ever heard that or not. It's vaguely familiar. It isn't *always* sunny, though, and green grass in a drought is astroturf<G> You can always pretend fog makes for a white Christmas, too.

I've been in snow where it's even cold (snow here isn't, and doesn't last). You don't want to go outside. Unhealthy, that. ;-)

ElyseC
11-22-2005, 08:34 AM
Guess we need to prepare.We thought we'd started winter last week, but the weather's just toying with us. We're back up to highs in the 40s to low 50s and lows in the 20s-30s. Currently predicting a little tiny bit of snow Friday, but looks like the zoom back up in temps the following days will melt it off in no time. The kids around here are bummed. Just had Ben's winter jacket repaired with a new zipper (it's second hand from a friend back in California) and he has bright red snow pants he's itching to wear, two pair of boots (last years and this), but no luck.

I'm ready for snow to cover the grey-brown harvested fields in sugary drifts and coat all the bare tree branches.

ElyseC
11-22-2005, 08:35 AM
Laid back and clueless? Uh huh, yeah, right. ;)

BigJohnD
11-22-2005, 12:32 PM
she told me science has found that living in four distinct seasons is very good for the brain Interesting. I have to say going to work in the dark (sun rises about 7:50 am), having minimal sunlight during these foggy days and coming home in the dark (sun sets about 4:10 pm) can be depressing. Enough to drink one to drink.

(But the long summer days with 16 hours of sunlight are lovely. Just right for sitting in a pub garden, drinking.)

Looks like Friday night could be a bit nasty.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/5day.shtml?id=2387

ElyseC
11-23-2005, 10:40 AM
My sis-in-law who lives in Alaska, working up in Prudhoe Bay, sure knows about long winter nights and long summer days. When she brought her toddler daughter down to Washington state for a grandparental visit one summer, said toddler became very alarmed in the evening. "Mommy! The sky is getting DARK!" Her mommy assured her it really was OK, nothing to worry about, quite normal for where Grandma and Granddad live. :-)

BigJohnD
11-23-2005, 03:38 PM
"Mommy! The sky is getting DARK!" Love it! But I know what she means - I spent June 1979 in Leningrad (or is it now St Petersberg?) where the sun just pops below the horizon for a few minutes - the white nights. You could sit out in a park at 2 a.m. and read the paper…

ktinkel
11-23-2005, 04:25 PM
Love it! But I know what she means - I spent June 1979 in Leningrad (or is it now St Petersberg?) where the sun just pops below the horizon for a few minutes - the white nights. You could sit out in a park at 2 a.m. and read the paper…In Anchorage we used to have a midnight golf tournament in June.

In December, though, I went to school in the dark, popped out for lunch in daylight, and came home in the dark.

Mike
11-25-2005, 12:06 AM
There's no snow here but it's colder than usual; freezing at night and just above during the 8 hours of daylight here at 53°+N.

Well, I guess there is now. We've got snow. It's only about an inch deep though.

LoisWakeman
11-25-2005, 03:02 AM
We do have snow now - yes (Devon, England). About 15cms of lovely powder snow, and now brilliant sunshine and blue skies. I spent two hours out with the camera just enjoying the scenery. It's so rare to get more than a dusting here, and even more unusual when there are still leaves on the trees. Magical!

iamback
11-25-2005, 11:43 AM
It's so rare to get more than a dusting here, and even more unusual when there are still leaves on the trees. Magical!
We've got snow in some parts of the country today - but winter came in with a growl. Very, very bad weather, with lots of rain, hail, and snow (depending on location), storm, and all morning thunderstorms along the coastal area (including here in Amsterdam). Traffic was chaos all day - early evening there was a total of 600Km of traffic just standing still. Railways (I had to use them today) were a disaster with snow, trees fallen on rails, a few collisions, and (at least) two lightning strikes. On several stretches there was no train traffic at all. People were advised to avoid Utrecht. Guess what? That's where I had to go today... I did get there in the end - and when it was time to go back home it was only slightly better.

BigJohnD
11-27-2005, 02:06 PM
I'm just too near the sea - the worse was hailstones which melted on hitting the ground, no snow. :-(

It was really bad on Bodmin Moor from what I saw on the telly.