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mksf
11-06-2005, 02:17 PM
Howdy! (Yeah, I'm still alive, and not online very much lately.)

Brent and I bought a pair of Samsung Syncmaster 930b LCD monitors. The guy at the store (Fry's) assured us the 930b will work with Brent's G4 running OS9. (He hasn't found a reason to go to OS X.)

Sure enough, the cable connects to the back of the Mac, just as it did with my PC. The Samsung gets power, but the G4 will not power on. Pressing the button on the front panel does nothing.

I'm assuming it's because of the USB cable that ran from the keyboard to the monitor. I've never seen such a thing, and I'm guessing that is what enabled one to use the power button on the monitor to power-on the system.

Brent has had power problems in the past, and using the button on the front of the monitor sometimes was the only way to start the G4.

Any words of advice? Or should we just return the LCD to Fry's and have Brent keep working with his CRT that's way too big for the space we have? ...thanks!

ktinkel
11-06-2005, 04:36 PM
Howdy! (Yeah, I'm still alive, and not online very much lately.)Hi, Mike — very glad to see you here!

Brent and I bought a pair of Samsung Syncmaster 930b LCD monitors. The guy at the store (Fry's) assured us the 930b will work with Brent's G4 running OS9. (He hasn't found a reason to go to OS X.)

Sure enough, the cable connects to the back of the Mac, just as it did with my PC. The Samsung gets power, but the G4 will not power on. Pressing the button on the front panel does nothing.

I'm assuming it's because of the USB cable that ran from the keyboard to the monitor. I've never seen such a thing, and I'm guessing that is what enabled one to use the power button on the monitor to power-on the system.

Brent has had power problems in the past, and using the button on the front of the monitor sometimes was the only way to start the G4.Well, I am no techno-maven. But USB is always problematical in my experience.

I do not think I can solve this, but have some questions. Why doesn’t Brent want to (think he needs to) move to OS X? According to a squib in this month’s MacWorld, it seems that some 81% of Mac users have migrated to OS X — and I fear that many developers assume it is now the standard. (Have no idea if this is the issue — just a point of information.)

Can he move his USB devices to a powered hub?

I hope someone smarter can help — I am out of ideas.

mksf
11-06-2005, 08:06 PM
Yo, Kathleen!

Why doesn’t Brent want to (think he needs to) move to OS X?
At this point, he feels no need to upgrade any applications, and until he needs to install something that requires a newer OS, he's not going to spend the time and energy to upgrade.

Can he move his USB devices to a powered hub?The USB devices aren't a problem. The issue was not recognizing why there's a USB cable from the keyboard to the monitor. (We figured that out later. The monitor is a hub, too--there are four USB ports hidden on the right side.)

The computer works just fine with the Apple Monitor (a Display Studio 21), but it won't do anything with the LCD. <sigh>

don Arnoldy
11-06-2005, 09:02 PM
The Samsung gets power, but the G4 will not power on. Pressing the button on the front panel does nothing.Pressing the button on the front panel of the monitor, or the front panel of the computer? There are a couple of different models of G4s--are there four divots along the bottom of the front of the computer? is there a power key on the keyboard?

ktinkel
11-07-2005, 04:54 AM
The USB devices aren't a problem. The issue was not recognizing why there's a USB cable from the keyboard to the monitor. (We figured that out later. The monitor is a hub, too--there are four USB ports hidden on the right side.)

The computer works just fine with the Apple Monitor (a Display Studio 21), but it won't do anything with the LCD. <sigh>Well, I am no use here, but Don A or someone else may be able to help.

I thought that today all modern monitors could be used with Macs, though you might need to search out an appropriate connector.

Good luck with it.

Sayling
11-07-2005, 08:08 AM
fwiw I have a Formac 17" LCD display connected to my G4MDD which works fine on both 10.4.2 as well as 9.2.2

If you were previously using the G4 with a 21" monitor, is the display resolution set too high for the LCD screen?

Try connecting up the 21" Apple display, and set the display resolution to something which the Samsung LCD can handle -- 1280 x 1024 should work on both the Apple Studio 21" as well as the Samsung 930B, I think, then do the monitor swap.

Sayling

mksf
11-07-2005, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the suggestions! The cable from the monitor fits the video port on the Mac, but the Mac simply won't boot unless the CRT is attached. <sigh>

Stephen Owades
11-07-2005, 08:28 PM
Thanks for the suggestions! The cable from the monitor fits the video port on the Mac, but the Mac simply won't boot unless the CRT is attached. <sigh>I have a Macintosh G4 and two non-Apple monitors, neither of which has anything to do with the startup process of the computer. (One monitor is a big CRT, connected to the standard Apple video card; the other is an SGI flat panel with its own special video card and interface.) There's a start button on the keyboard which awakens the computer, and as long as the computer is connected to the keyboard via USB there's no problem. If your Apple monitor has a start button, it probably sends the same signal via USB that the keyboard would.

mksf
11-07-2005, 08:30 PM
Pressing the button on the front panel of the monitor, or the front panel of the computer? There are a couple of different models of G4s--are there four divots along the bottom of the front of the computer? is there a power key on the keyboard?
Hi, Don. Long time!

Directly answering your questions, I was referring to pressing the power button on the front of the CPU. There are two buttons along the bottom--are those the divots to which you're referring? I've attached a picture of both the CPU and the monitor, in case they help.

According to the manuals that came with the computer, its a Power Mac G4, with the monitor connected to the VGA monitor port. Brent is having problems with the battery, so the machine does lose the date and time, but with the Studio Display, it boots ok.

Any other information I should find and provide? ...thanks!

mksf
11-07-2005, 08:34 PM
There's a start button on the keyboard which awakens the computer, and as long as the computer is connected to the keyboard via USB there's no problem. If your Apple monitor has a start button, it probably sends the same signal via USB that the keyboard would.
Brent's computer doesn't have a power button on the keyboard, but indeed, there is one on the monitor, so perhaps that's also why the monitor needs the USB connection.

He has a keyboard with a power button from an old G3 that he's no longer using, so we'll try swapping that, too, when we swap the monitor to try again. ...thanks!

mksf
11-07-2005, 08:35 PM
Try connecting up the 21" Apple display, and set the display resolution to something which the Samsung LCD can handle -- 1280 x 1024 should work on both the Apple Studio 21" as well as the Samsung 930B, I think, then do the monitor swap.
Thanks! We'll try that. However, I'm not sure if that's the root cause, because the Mac doesn't even begin to boot--we never hear disk activity or fans or anything else.

Sayling
11-08-2005, 12:55 AM
Does it boot if you just connect the video connector and leave the USB connection off?
Sayling

mksf
11-08-2005, 07:35 PM
Does it boot if you just connect the video connector and leave the USB connection off?
Good question! We'll try it and I'll let you know. ...thanks!

don Arnoldy
11-08-2005, 10:35 PM
Any other information I should find and provide?hmmm...

There are two different boxes for the G4s:the older box is the one you have, the newer one has a shiny front and a row of 4 divots along the bottom.

Both your computer and your Apple monitor have power buttons (the keyboard may also have one). Any of these should cause the computer to power up.

When you have the non-Apple monitor connected, and the keyboard connected directly to the computer (not plugged into the monitor) and you press the power button on the computer...

Do you hear a "bong" tone?
Does the power button on the computer glow? What color?

While a monitor may not display, it should not prevent the computer from booting!

--don

ktinkel
11-09-2005, 10:54 AM
I've attached a picture of both the CPU and the monitor, in case they help.Oh-oh — now I do have an idea.

From the picture, Brent’s Mac is the vintage of G4 I had to replace (with a newer G4) in order to run the 23-inch Cinema display. It had something to do with having power on the video card, and the powered cards did not fit (physically and perhaps electronically) in that older G4 case. I had bought the monitor at a CompUSA with an on-site Apple techie, and he really went the extra mile trying to solve this, trying all sorts of adaptors and third-party video cards.

This may not relate to Brent’s problem but perhaps he should check into video cards.

BTW: To find out everything you could possibly want to know about his Mac, click on the Apple icon (top left in the menu bar) and then choose About this Mac.

Good luck.

Stephen Owades
11-09-2005, 07:16 PM
There was no mention of changing video cards in this switchover from Apple CRT to Samsung LCD monitors, so compatibily issues with the video card and its power requirements shouldn't affect whether the machine will boot properly. Unless perhaps they're using DVI to connect the LCD monitor, and the video card is now causing trouble because the digital video interface is drawing more power. If it's that, it might be worth trying (at least temporarily) an analog connection to the Samsung LCD, which does support analog as well as digital inputs.

mksf
11-09-2005, 09:09 PM
Does it boot if you just connect the video connector and leave the USB connection off?
Ok, we tried it, and discovered that was the root of the problem. We disconnected the USB cable that ran from the keyboard to the Mac monitor, and the machine simply wouldn't boot.

Then we disconnected the keyboard and used the keyboard from Brent's G3. That keyboard has a power button on it. We were able to boot with no problem by using the keyboard's power button.

Then we swapped monitors, and the new monitor is working. We do have a problem getting its colors and such adjusted, but I'll start a separate thread on that one.

Thanks for pointing us in the direction for troubleshooting! ...cheers!

mksf
11-09-2005, 09:12 PM
This may not relate to Brent’s problem but perhaps he should check into video cards.
Well, thanks to Sayling's troubleshooting pointer, we solved the problem. The Mac seems to insist on finding a power button somewhere along the USB chain, and the old monitor had been providing that. When we used the keyboard from Brent's old G3, its power button let us proceed.

We're now having a difficult time trying to adjust the colors, but I'm starting a separate thread on that. ...cheers!

ktinkel
11-10-2005, 06:47 AM
Well, thanks to Sayling's troubleshooting pointer, we solved the problem. Yay! And whew!