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dthomsen8
10-01-2005, 08:09 AM
I am considering buying a LG Flatron LCD Monitor, which can pivot from landscape to portrait mode. It has a sensor and included software which will switch the orientation along with the position of the screen.

I suspect that desktop publishing people may be using portrait mode with software that makes the switch, either automatically (Flatron) or with included software, or software included with the video card.

What can you tell me about the use of portrait mode? Anything about the hardware would also be interesting to me.

LG Electronics Flatron L1981Q, a 19" monitor, is reviewed quite favorably in PC WORLD magazine for October, 2005.
http://www.desktoppublishingforum.com/bb/ankel/statusicon/user_online.gif

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 09:01 AM
I am considering buying a LG Flatron LCD Monitor, which can pivot from landscape to portrait mode. I suspect that desktop publishing people may be using portrait mode with software that makes the switch, either automatically (Flatron) or with included software, or software included with the video card.

What can you tell me about the use of portrait mode? Interesting. Years ago Radius made a pivoting monitor, and I knew a few people who used them, though not many. In fact, I thought the whole notion had been abandoned, but I just did a quick Googling and found several references to pivoting monitors.

Just curious, but why would anyone want to be able to pivot from landscape to portrait? Why not just buy a larger monitor that would accommodate work of any format?

dthomsen8
10-01-2005, 11:35 AM
Just curious, but why would anyone want to be able to pivot from landscape to portrait? Why not just buy a larger monitor that would accommodate work of any format?

Right now I have the video card set at 1024x768, the maximum. A larger monitor will make the characters larger, but won't put more of the DTP forum on the screen. I don't see the replies because of the space used by the browser lines and by the forum heading. A switch to portrait mode, presumably would give me more vertical coverage before scrolling. I am asking about whether that works out in practice, though.

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 12:07 PM
Right now I have the video card set at 1024x768, the maximum. A larger monitor will make the characters larger, but won't put more of the DTP forum on the screen. I don't see the replies because of the space used by the browser lines and by the forum heading. A switch to portrait mode, presumably would give me more vertical coverage before scrolling. I am asking about whether that works out in practice, though.Hmmm. I have a 23-inch LCD monitor (1900X1200). It has a landscape shape, though I have my browser set to a vertical page and the forum set to Hybrid Mode.

With my setup I can see the thread diagram, the message I am reading, and whatever of the thread fits beneath that message. Then I do need to scroll vertically. If the message is a long one, I may see only part of my other messages. So I guess what you want is to see many messages in the thread?

If you use Linear Mode you get more messages on the screen, but lose the thread diagram, which I find helpful. If you could have higher resolution, it might help you, marginally.

It will be interesting to hear from someone with a pivoting monitor to see if it looks much different from what I see. This forum software is good in many respects, but it is kind of bulky, and even using browser controls to reduce the type size only helps a little with the vertical spacing.

Michael Rowley
10-01-2005, 12:50 PM
KT:

I have a 23-inch LCD monitor (1900X1200)

We rather envy you your big monitor, but now that a lot of people have the facility for running two monitors, I wonder whether it would be more economical to have two smaller monitors; you can get two good 17-in monitors for less than the price of a bigger one. And twin portrait monitors would make excellent sense for book typographers.

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 01:47 PM
… now that a lot of people have the facility for running two monitors, I wonder whether it would be more economical to have two smaller monitors; you can get two good 17-in monitors for less than the price of a bigger one. And twin portrait monitors would make excellent sense for book typographers.We have had that ability on the Mac for years, and about ten years ago I tried it for a while, and hated it. It was more work navigating to palettes and other support items when placed on the second monitor, and the arrangement did not materially improve my life in any other aspect. <g> So first chance I found, I got a nice big monitor and gave up on using two.

In any event, he was curious about how this forum works. I do not think he ever considered producing books.

annc
10-01-2005, 01:49 PM
And twin portrait monitors would make excellent sense for book typographers.Not necessarily. It's important to see the readers' spreads when doing book design/production.

I had two monitors on my Mac 15 years ago - the lovely Apple Portrait monitor, and a 14" colour. Moving the cursor from one to the other was interesting, especially in PageMaker, which kept putting the Tabs palette below the bottom of the screen where I couldn't grab it to move it.

Now I have one 20" monitor.

Michael Rowley
10-01-2005, 02:23 PM
Ann:

It's important to see the readers' spreads

That was precisely my point: you can see both pages at once, side by side. But I don't know whether the Mac OS supports it properly. A 20-in display would be not much use to me for any detail work.

annc
10-01-2005, 03:10 PM
That was precisely my point: you can see both pages at once, side by side.I can do that now, on my 20" monitor, at the correct distance apart. I would quite like a second monitor now, but it would be for the tool palettes, not the working page. If you're going to use two portrait monitors for the pages, where do you put your tool palettes in InDesign?But I don't know whether the Mac OS supports it properly.The Mac OS supported a second monitor (without the need for a video card of any sort) 15 years ago. Why would it not support a second monitor now? A 20-in display would be not much use to me for any detail work.Hmm, I've been using my current 20" monitor for nearly 10 years for very detailed work. I can zoom in and out at will. What size monitor do you have?

Michael Rowley
10-01-2005, 04:00 PM
Ann:

The Mac OS supported a second monitor (without the need for a video card of any sort) 15 years ago

That may be one of the advantages of Macintosh OSs. You need a special type of video for PCs using Windows, but it may have become standard, and you need software support if the two monitors are to behave as one. Windows 2000 didn't give that support, but I believe Windows XP does.

I am using a 19-in CR tube, but when I'm working in Word (which is most of the time) I prefer to use 200% magnification if I can. And where do I put the palettes? Nowhere, if I can help it: I don't like them, and I especially dislike InDesign palettes, which have writing on them that's too tiddly to read, even if I had the knack of reading text that's inclined to the horizontal at 90º.

dthomsen8
10-01-2005, 05:19 PM
Hmmm. I have a 23-inch LCD monitor (1900X1200). It has a landscape shape, though I have my browser set to a vertical page and the forum set to Hybrid Mode.


23 inch monitor? Now that is a really big monitor, and here I am only aspiring to 19 inches. For the kind of work I do, the 17 inch Magnavox monitor was sufficient, but it died a few weeks ago, and now I am working on a 15" Dell LCD while I decide what to get next.

I am going to try a Belkin 2-Port KVM Switch, so I cam switch back and forth between my Win XP Pro and my Win 98SE computers with the one screen. Learning how to use that will be important if we get a third computer, so my wife can play games with one monitor, and I can use both of the older computers from one keyboard, one mouse, and one screen.

Ian Petersen
10-01-2005, 09:09 PM
I have the video card set at 1024x768, the maximumYour video card only goes to 1024x768? Are you sure? Most modern video cards support screens double that size with ease. If you're using a flat-screen or laptop monitor the resolution may be locked to the res of the LCD, but the video card almost certainly supports higher resolutions. If your video card really doesn't support other resolutions then there is little point in getting the larger pivoting monitor which will undoubtedly require a fairly advanced video card to support the pivoting. I'd also be surprised if the drivers for such a monitor will run on anything older than Win2k ot MacOS-X.

FWIW I read this forum mostly on a laptop at 1024x768 with the browser at about 800px wide. I find it works best in threaded mode with only one message at a time so there's no need to scroll. Just click on the thread thingy.

Ian Petersen
10-01-2005, 09:21 PM
Yes, I much prefer two monitors to one large. At work I have two 19" monitors on the Mac. At home I have a 19" and a 17" on the pc. In InDesign I can fit a full spread on one monitor and have all the palettes on the other. A single large monitor still seems cluttered to me.

annc
10-01-2005, 09:23 PM
And where do I put the palettes? Nowhere, if I can help it: I don't like them, and I especially dislike InDesign palettes, which have writing on them that's too tiddly to read, even if I had the knack of reading text that's inclined to the horizontal at 90º.I've been earning my living from InDesign since it came out, and therefore need to use the palettes for speed. The only gripe I have is that the Text Wrap palette disappears all the time, and I have to reselect it from the menu.

Now I hate Word with a vengeance, and never voluntarily use it for document creation. The thing that bugs me most often about it (and you have to remember that this is with documents from other people) is that the documents never come at the zoom level I can comfortably read, and it doesn't support the standard Command-+ zoom command, so I have to manually select a zoom level from the tool bar. And I hate tool bars, btw. ;-)

dthomsen8
10-02-2005, 03:02 AM
Yes, I have my video card set at 1024x768, the maximum setting at the "Settings>Display>Settings" page. That is because the Dell E151FPb that I am using after the Magnavox died has that as a maximum. However, you are right that the video card, RADEON 9200SE, can go higher than that, much higher, in fact. Even the 17" Magnavox, ca. 1998, had a higher setting than 1024x768.


Your video card only goes to 1024x768? Are you sure? Most modern video cards support screens double that size with ease. If you're using a flat-screen or laptop monitor the resolution may be locked to the res of the LCD, but the video card almost certainly supports higher resolutions. If your video card really doesn't support other resolutions then there is little point in getting the larger pivoting monitor which will undoubtedly require a fairly advanced video card to support the pivoting. I'd also be surprised if the drivers for such a monitor will run on anything older than Win2k ot MacOS-X.

FWIW I read this forum mostly on a laptop at 1024x768 with the browser at about 800px wide. I find it works best in threaded mode with only one message at a time so there's no need to scroll. Just click on the thread thingy.

ktinkel
10-02-2005, 07:04 AM
23 inch monitor? Now that is a really big monitor, and here I am only aspiring to 19 inches.Not so big for the sort of work I do (did, anyway) — publication design. I could look (though not read) a two-page spread to check for overall design and balance, including picture placement and other macro issues. Then zoom in with plenty of room for palettes to work on a page.

I generally have several apps open and showing. That way I can reference my mini-database while writing, for example; monitor a chat; or keep one or more browsers available while designing web pages so I can just click once to bring them forward and then on refresh to see how things are going, while keeping my HTML editor open on the screen.

So it’s not all that big. I lust for a 30-inch display, but am too cheap for that!

Michael Rowley
10-02-2005, 07:33 AM
Ann:

The thing that bugs me most often about it . . . is that the documents never come at the zoom level I can comfortably read

I have two additional settings: 'Zoom to page width' and 'Zoom to 200%'. The first generally suits other people's documents, and my own if I want an overview, and the second the texts I'm working on. Both are accessible by icons, which of course are in the toolbar at the right; I don't like 'palettes', which tend to be in the way and convert to toolbars if one chooses.

Word is admirably configurable, but practically no one can comfortably work with its default toolbars, which are overfilled. The new Word 12 threatens to be unconfigurable, but that has been established only from the beta version.

fhaber
10-02-2005, 07:36 AM
I have Dell 17 and 19" flat panels that rotate, and I sometimes use them that way. Under WinXP, I find the following points important, for me and how I work...

o Use all flatscreen monitor at their maximum and optimum resolution ONLY. For inexpensive 17s and 19s this means 1280x1024, unless you have a widescreen model.

o Test before buying to make sure your video card's drivers stably support portrait mode.

o Get an icon-position-save utility, because Windows loses track, sometimes, in certain phases of the moon.

o If whole windows get lost offscreen, a rightlick on the taskbar item for the peekaboo program, then selecting Move can save you (use the arrow keys, then return).

(re dual) Stock traders work all day with dual monitors, and 3-7 apps all over the map, sometimes straddling the panels. They get used to the quirks. I still feel most comfortable with work area on one panel and toolbars and utils in the other.

dthomsen8
10-03-2005, 05:18 AM
Elsewhere I learn that the LG Flatron is actually Lucky Goldstar brand. That makes me think much harder about a Dell instead.

Right now, I am going to shut down this computer and try the Beltron KVM switch.

Stephen Owades
10-04-2005, 12:46 PM
Elsewhere I learn that the LG Flatron is actually Lucky Goldstar brand. That makes me think much harder about a Dell instead.

Right now, I am going to shut down this computer and try the Beltron KVM switch.
LG, a South Korean company, used to operated under the name Lucky Goldstar, but they've been using LG for several years now. They're a major maker of LCD display panels, and make--or used to make--some of the big Apple screens like the one Kathleen is so fond of. They also own the Zenith brand name in the US, used mostly for television products. I wouldn't avoid LG. And as for Dell's displays, they're all made by someone else--which may be LG, for that matter. The only difference is that with Dell they won't tell you who made the monitor.

ktinkel
10-04-2005, 12:55 PM
LG, a South Korean company, used to operated under the name Lucky Goldstar, but they've been using LG for several years now. LG also makes some very interesting kitchen appliances (under the LG label). A fridge with a bottom freezer that is a pull-out drawer (based on photos I have seen) whose front angles out for better access.

These are not the priciest appliances but not low-end either, and they seem to be aiming at the kitchen-proud set, advertising in upscale magazines. Of course, they are new, so it is hard to know how well-made they are.

annc
10-04-2005, 05:21 PM
Of course, they are new, so it is hard to know how well-made they are.LG has been around here for 10-15 years. The local aircon engineers used to sneer at their airconditioners, but people I know who bought them swear by them.

Dunno how their TVs etc. perform.

Norman Hathaway
10-06-2005, 08:14 PM
i used a 19" dell at work and was very happy with it. much better quality than i expected, and possibly the best deal $-wise at present. 2 of those is a better idea than a 22 or 23" in my opinion.

i used to have an nec 1880x which i LOVED. possibly the thinnest surround of any flat screen (makes apple's current models look clunky), and came in black, which i prefer to aluminum or grey, for 'laying back' and not being obtrusive. it pivoted, however only OS9 supports most pivot software. nothing works on OSX that i know of.

we recently got 30" monitors at work, and it's the first time the work area has seemed comfortable. you can have a 2-page spread plus a palette or two. working in deep zoom is luxurious. sickening as it may sound though- after using one for 2 weeks it seems 'normal' and now working on my 22" screen at home seems tiny (!). it ruins you. 2 people at work now agree with me in thinking 2 30" screens would be just groovy.

form orderly line to kill me.

terrie
10-07-2005, 11:28 AM
>>norman: we recently got 30" monitors at work

What brand?

Terrie

Norman Hathaway
10-07-2005, 11:45 AM
some company called Apple

ktinkel
10-07-2005, 12:10 PM
… thinking 2 30" screens would be just groovy.Any chance in hell you will be given such a setup? (If so, ask for a raise — they obviously really, really, make a lot of money from your work!) <g>

I would like a 30-inch myself; not that the 23 is paltry, but I do run out of space from time to time.

terrie
10-07-2005, 12:14 PM
>>norman: some company called Apple

Ah well...being pc based means even if tempted, it would be no go...'-}}

Terrie

Norman Hathaway
10-07-2005, 12:14 PM
i used to think they were overpriced. but after using it it's changed my mind, and i now feel it's worth it. makes life a LOT easier.

Norman Hathaway
10-07-2005, 12:22 PM
i thought i saw some pc'ers using it

you sure ?

ktinkel
10-07-2005, 12:58 PM
>>norman: some company called Apple

Ah well...being pc based means even if tempted, it would be no go...'-}}The Apple LCD displays work on PCs. However, the similar Sony works better — according to Stephen Owades, the Sony allows for some functions that the Apple monitor does not when hooked up to a PC.

So you can still fantasize, but probably more productively for a Sony, which may even be found for less money.

ktinkel
10-07-2005, 01:09 PM
i used to think they were overpriced. but after using it it's changed my mind, and i now feel it's worth it. makes life a LOT easier.I got the 23-inch because when I went just to look at the small Apple LCD, it seemed small. I was changing from a 22-inch SuperMac (which just died yesterday, after 15 years or so). The 23-inch cinema display just beamed at me.

I averted my eyes from the 30-inch (and it was difficult enough to get the 23 — had to buy it a new G4!) But I harbor great lust for the 30, and think you are quite right that two would be fabulous.

Steve Rindsberg
10-07-2005, 04:54 PM
Kill you?

Why good heavens no!

That would be too kind. ;-)

Norman Hathaway
10-07-2005, 06:05 PM
yes we were discussing it in the office today- if we had them whether we'd arrange them side to side, or top to bottom. voting result - split decision.

ktinkel
10-07-2005, 06:28 PM
yes we were discussing it in the office today- if we had them whether we'd arrange them side to side, or top to bottom. voting result - split decision.Gee — what a decision! <g>

Norman Hathaway
10-07-2005, 06:31 PM
help swing the vote!

Stephen Owades
10-07-2005, 08:15 PM
The Apple LCD displays work on PCs. However, the similar Sony works better — according to Stephen Owades, the Sony allows for some functions that the Apple monitor does not when hooked up to a PC.

So you can still fantasize, but probably more productively for a Sony, which may even be found for less money.Sony doesn't make an equivalent to Apple's 30" monitor, but their 23" widescreen display (1920x1200) is terrific, and does offer more control than Apple's equivalent. I'm probably getting one of the Sony displays soon for myself.

ktinkel
10-08-2005, 06:44 AM
Sony doesn't make an equivalent to Apple's 30" monitor, but their 23" widescreen display (1920x1200) is terrific, and does offer more control than Apple's equivalent. I'm probably getting one of the Sony displays soon for myself.Ooops — I misunderstood. The 23" is not pathetic, in any case.

What controls does the Sony have?

Stephen Owades
10-08-2005, 10:13 AM
Ooops — I misunderstood. The 23" is not pathetic, in any case.

What controls does the Sony have?The main difference, as I see it, is that a full range of adjustments is available directly on the Sony monitor--with buttons and displays on the bezel and the screeen itself--while the Apple monitor is controlled from the computer. If you have a Mac, you can work happily with the Apple monitor, but if you have a Windows machine you may be unable to access all of the display's controls.

Another difference is that the Sony monitor adds analog inputs to the DVI input that both monitors share. I would frankly prefer two switchable DVI inputs, but neither of these displays offers that.

terrie
10-08-2005, 10:44 AM
>>norman: you sure ?

There is some sort of kluge but I've never investigated it fully...

Terrie

terrie
10-08-2005, 10:47 AM
Stephen...what's the model number on the Sony you are considering?

Thanks...

Terrie

Norman Hathaway
10-08-2005, 10:51 AM
ye of little faith

http://www.synapps.de/synapps/bin/view/Main/CinemaDisplayWindows

Andrew B.
10-08-2005, 10:59 AM
I've been staying out of this, because I've compared several of the flat panels, and I think that even an average quality CRT is better. But, I recently compared several sizes of flat panels from LG, Sony, Samsung, MAG, and Viewsonic. They were very close. But I favored the LG.

terrie
10-08-2005, 11:17 AM
Norman...I get a no find on that link and any mod (trying to go back up the link chain)...

Terrie

fhaber
10-08-2005, 02:13 PM
Please do keep us up to date if you do get twin 30s. I want to know if you get an epiphany or tennis-match neck, or both in sequence (g).

-f, sarcastic as usual but secretly envious.

Stephen Owades
10-08-2005, 02:22 PM
Stephen...what's the model number on the Sony you are considering?

Thanks...

TerrieIt's the PremierPro SDM-P234/B. See the SonyStyle web site here (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=SDMP234%2FB&Dept=computers&CategoryName=cpu_Displays_FlatPanelLCDs_20%22) for details.

I was concerned about using it as an external monitor with my IBM ThinkPad, which has DVI out via its docking station. With the IBM display drivers, it supports 1600x1200 (matching the built-in screen), and even a higher resolution of 2048x1536, but not the widescreen 1920x1200 ratio of the Sony (and Apple) 23" displays. Fortunately, I was able to visit a local computer builder/dealer who had one on display, and by adjusting the display settings on their demo system I found that it would display 1600x1200 pixel-for-pixel (with black bars on the side), as I'd hoped. I'm also looking into getting a desktop machine, and that one will have an appropriate graphics card to generate 1920x1200.

terrie
10-10-2005, 02:55 PM
>>stephen: It's the PremierPro SDM-P234/B.

Thanks for the link...


>>Fortunately, I was able to visit a local computer builder/dealer who had one on display, and by adjusting the display settings on their demo system I found that it would display 1600x1200 pixel-for-pixel (with black bars on the side), as I'd hoped.

You are indeed fortunate...while I've not shopped for an LCD display, I have tried to find the CRT's I was interested in (this was a few years ago) someplace local and was unsuccessful and ordered my Mitsubishi and later my NEC monitors sight unseen and hoped for the best...

I wonder since LCD's take up less real estate if it's easier now to find good (for graphic needs) monitors locally...

I've heard very good things on the ColorSync list about the Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW LCD...

Thanks...

Terrie

Norman Hathaway
10-10-2005, 03:56 PM
we have one of those in the office and it's excellent

terrie
10-11-2005, 10:56 AM
>>norman: we have one of those in the office and it's excellent

Good to know...

Terrie