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Daudio
09-30-2005, 05:19 PM
All,

I recently happened across a web page that displayed a very attractive font. When I checked out the source code it was "Trebuchet MS". I have that font on my OS9 Mac, that I use for most of my (safe) surfing, but I'm not sure how prevelant it might be on all the other computers 'out there'.

Any comments on the use of Trebuchet MS, for its visual presentation, likelyhood of existance on a majority of browser machines, and fallback font(s) ?

Ian Petersen
09-30-2005, 10:42 PM
Trebuchet is one of the 'safest' fonts to use for web use. It's one of Microsoft's web-fonts and so should be avaible on pretty nearly every computer on the planet - 90.6% to be precise, according to this (http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-WindowsResults.shtml) study.

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 07:37 AM
… a very attractive font. When I checked out the source code it was "Trebuchet MS". … Any comments on the use of Trebuchet MS, for its visual presentation, likelyhood of existance on a majority of browser machines, and fallback font(s) ?It is pretty common on Macs and PCs. A web site called Code Style (http://www.codestyle.org/css/font-family/sampler-CombinedResults.shtml) monitors font usage (not sure how, nor how well, but they have been at it for four years).

Its Sept. 24 results show that 90.91% of Mac users and 90.6% of Windows users have Trebuchet MS available.

I also somewhat like Trebuchet. It appears to have been inspired by Gill Sans, and it has some of its charm and is easier to read on a monitor. I really like Trebuchet caps, and often spec those in CSS for an all caps head.

However, I find it hard to read in small sizes (below about 12 pixels). The thin letters (i, especially) are too close to their neighbors, sometimes causing a sort of optical illusion.

To give you an idea, look at what happens at difference sizes (using the sizes allowed in the editor here):
Mix Zapf with Veljovic and get quirky Beziers. [1]
Mix Zapf with Veljovic and get quirky Beziers. [2]
Mix Zapf with Veljovic and get quirky Beziers. [3]
Mix Zapf with Veljovic and get quirky Beziers. [4]
It looks pretty good at 3, very clear at 4. I would probably prefer something like 3-1/2 (whatever that might be in pixels.

Michael Rowley
10-01-2005, 08:23 AM
KT:

A useful guide is Microsoft's typography site, which has lists of fonts that are supplied with Windows, the Macintosh OSs, and of course MS Office. The mystery is what the Linux users are supplied with (if anything) and what the remaining OSs.

Of course, a font on the computer may not be installed, and an installed font may never be used.

Ian Petersen
10-01-2005, 09:14 AM
There's a nice little site for testing webfonts called, believe it or not, Typetester:

http://typetester.maratz.com/

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 10:05 AM
There's a nice little site for testing webfonts called, believe it or not, Typetester …Clever and useful site.

Dave will notice that Trebuchet MS is on the “safe” list. And he can test readability by playing with the CSS. Thanks.

annc
10-01-2005, 02:02 PM
There's a nice little site for testing webfonts called, believe it or not, Typetester:

http://typetester.maratz.com/That site crashes Firefox 1.0.6 on my Mac. Tried it three times - twice via the link, and once by typing in the URL.

No problems with Safari.

Ian Petersen
10-01-2005, 10:37 PM
Hmm. It works fine in Firefox here. Both Mac and pc.

ktinkel
10-02-2005, 07:54 AM
Hmm. It works fine in Firefox here. Both Mac and pc.Firefox 1.0.7 (Mac) works fine too. I am on Tiger; Ann isn’t. So it might be something like that.

I think she downloaded 1.0.7 yesterday — maybe that fixed the problem.

Ian Petersen
10-02-2005, 08:00 AM
I'm not on Tiger either. I think I've got the latest Firefox though.

fhaber
10-02-2005, 08:07 AM
Hmm, the site hung on IE6 Win several times, then started working (suspiciously, exactly when I tried once with FF 1.07, which worked right off).

Set all to 1.5 em size, left Trebuchet, middle Verdana, right TNR. Hit PgDn. Is font size supposed to baloon like that? Do I have to actually read the directions?

ktinkel
10-02-2005, 08:07 AM
I'm not on Tiger either. I think I've got the latest Firefox though.Then I guess we must wait for the other side of the planet to wake up so Ann can tell us if the new Firefox fixed things! If not, she should probably repair permissions; that sometimes helps.

Just updating an app is often not good enough because the prefs are not replaced, and that could be where the problem lies. I’ve been caught by that once or twice.

annc
10-02-2005, 12:41 PM
Hmm. It works fine in Firefox here. Both Mac and pc.It's fine in Firefox 1.0.6 on my PC, but even in 1.0.7 on the Mac, it crashes Firefox.

I'll restart the computer when I've finished reading the message board here. Don't want to lose my New Posts.

annc
10-02-2005, 02:44 PM
Hmm. It works fine in Firefox here. Both Mac and pc.Nope. Repaired permissions, and restarted the Mac. It still crashes Firefox 1.0.7.

ktinkel
10-02-2005, 05:23 PM
Nope. Repaired permissions, and restarted the Mac. It still crashes Firefox 1.0.7.Have you discarded the .plist for Firefox?

annc
10-02-2005, 06:16 PM
Have you discarded the .plist for Firefox?No, I haven't tried that yet. Will do it next.

annc
10-02-2005, 06:28 PM
Have you discarded the .plist for Firefox?Yes, and still it crashes. I have a couple of plugins installed. Maybe if I disable them...

ktinkel
10-03-2005, 06:34 AM
Yes, and still it crashes. I have a couple of plugins installed. Maybe if I disable them...Good grief. Hope you unravel this. That particular site isn’t crucial, but the next one might be.

annc
10-03-2005, 12:59 PM
Good grief. Hope you unravel this. That particular site isn’t crucial, but the next one might be.Indeed! When I get an hour to spare, I'll disable everything and see what happens.

Daudio
10-06-2005, 04:42 PM
All,

It is pretty common on Macs and PCs.
Thanks for all the thoughts and links ! I'll give it a try when I can get back to work on my site.