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Howard White
09-23-2005, 12:53 PM
Here's another font ID request from an IRC group I hang out in. "Cathedral T" is one of the proposals so far...

HW

ElyseC
09-23-2005, 03:10 PM
It reminds me most of Meta, but also of Syntax. Neither one looks like a match, but try looking at this MyFonts.com search (http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/fontfont/ff-meta/morelikethis.html) and plugging in "cathedralcenter" for the sample text there while you're at it.

ktinkel
09-23-2005, 06:40 PM
Here's another font ID request from an IRC group I hang out in. "Cathedral T" is one of the proposals so far...Sure beats me. I have specimens of quite a few sans serifs, but looking at the key characters (a, h/d, c) — and lacking the really useful g and w — I do not find a match. And I would not pretend to be keeping up with this tribe, as they seem to hatch out a dozen a month!

Here are some I am sure it is not:

TheMix
Syntax
Fedra
Lucida Sans Narrow
Quay Sans
Alinea Sans
Claude Sans
Trade Gothic
The distinctive features are:

the tiny bowl of the a
the attack of the h, d, and n (where the arch leaves the stem)
the narrowness of r and t
How close must it be? Take a look at some of the near misses — see if any will do.

Michael Rowley
09-25-2005, 02:51 PM
KT:

Take a look at some of the near misses

Stepping in where experts fear to tread, what about Myriad?

ktinkel
09-25-2005, 06:33 PM
… what about Myriad?No. Compare the shape of the arch in h and n; the angle of the downward part of the bowl on the a, the width and curvature of the bottom of the t; and so on.

Alas.

Michael Rowley
09-26-2005, 08:53 AM
KT:

Compare the shape of the arch in h and n; the angle of the downward part of the bowl on the a, the width and curvature of the bottom of the t; and so on

Probably it's things like that that make you the expert and me the . . .

ktinkel
09-26-2005, 09:00 AM
Probably it's things like that that make you the expert and me the . . .Do not think it calls for much expertise, but it does call for making your mind and eye focus on very tiny details.

When it comes to sans serif faces, which emerge almost daily, like toadstools in the lawn, you have to peer closely at tiny details. Otherwise it is hopeless. Actually, as we see here, it is nearly hopeless anyway.

I once as an experiment took a dozen sans faces and swapped their caps to see if it made any serious difference. Very few, and none really significant. The only difficulty was line weight — that is where the variations are likely to occur in roman sans serifs.

The most distinctive parts of modern sans serif families are the italics. Pity we rarely get requests to identify those!

Michael Rowley
09-26-2005, 09:11 AM
KT:

The most distinctive parts of modern sans serif families are the italics

Many (most?) sans serif faces seem to have only sloped roman, so would their 'italic' help very much?

ktinkel
09-26-2005, 10:02 AM
Many (most?) sans serif faces seem to have only sloped roman, so would their 'italic' help very much?Some do, but the so-called humanist sans are likely to have cursive italics for key lowercase characters — typically, a, b, e, f, g, p, w, y (and perhaps others, including k, q, v, w).

Some are more cursive than others, and the f, particularly, may offer clues for identifying a sans serif face.

Michael Rowley
09-26-2005, 11:42 AM
KT:

but the so-called humanist sans are likely to have cursive italics for key lowercase characters

Agreed, but Optima (which Typophile doesn't recognize as a humanist sans, but many do) hasn't had a proper italic until recently, and many seriffed romans have none.

Perhaps one should devise a logo that has all the more recognizable letters in it, so that designers could imitate it exactly.

Paul
09-26-2005, 07:42 PM
One of the strange new features of my job is designing banners to hang outdoors. These are printed on vinyl and are typically 12.5 feet long.

Because the type on these is enormous, serifs tend to be too prominent, and I use mostly sans-serif faces, sometimes with a slogan set in a script or italic. The current one is an exception; its main typeface is Carmina. But the typeface is much more likely to be Frutiger or Today Sans or even Univers.

The figure 7 figures prominently in the next one, and I wanted a face in which the diagonal stem of the 7 was curved, not straight. I could have chosen Helvetica or Arial; what I actually chose was Franklin Gothic. The look is slightly fusty, but since the slogan ("7 TORAHS / NO WAITING") is one that people have to be about my age, if not older, to appreciate, this is OK.




I once as an experiment took a dozen sans faces and swapped their caps to see if it made any serious difference. Very few, and none really significant. The only difficulty was line weight — that is where the variations are likely to occur in roman sans serifs.

The most distinctive parts of modern sans serif families are the italics. Pity we rarely get requests to identify those!

ktinkel
09-27-2005, 07:52 AM
One of the strange new features of my job is designing banners to hang outdoors. These are printed on vinyl and are typically 12.5 feet long.Aside from the unusual typographic issues, that sounds like a lot of fun.

How are they produced? Direct to vinyl? <g>

kirun
09-27-2005, 12:13 PM
Well, thanks for your thoughts so far. This one's been driving me nuts for quite a while.

I've attached a higher res image of the text, and can give people an .ai or .svg . I've also attached a zoom-in on the g, because the sharp angle is one thing which always stands it out from suggested matches.

Paul
09-27-2005, 12:24 PM
I do not actually know how they are produced. Although one of the largest banner-printing companies in the country is here in Los Angeles - I pass the plant on my way to work - I have them all printed in Evansville, Indiana.

The company, ColorMax Digital, accepts PDF uploads and that is what I use, generally exported from InDesign but one came from Corel Draw. The technology is able to print process color, but because it costs less to print two spot colors on a white background, that's all I ever do. ColorMax's instructions say to make colors RGB rather than CMYK, if possible, for better color saturation.


I'll attach a PDF of the one that uses Franklin Gothic. It also uses Mistral; I don't think I have ever used Mistral before.

ktinkel
09-27-2005, 01:04 PM
I'll attach a PDF of the one that uses Franklin Gothic. It also uses Mistral; I don't think I have ever used Mistral before.That is cool. Is it a very expensive proposition? Would it be reasonable to buy a (smaller) banner for a birthday party, say?

Paul
09-27-2005, 01:53 PM
That is cool. Is it a very expensive proposition? Would it be reasonable to buy a (smaller) banner for a birthday party, say?

The cost is almost exactly proportional to the size. (Some companies also charge according to the ink coverage, which I don't like.) A banner 12.5 feet by 3 feet, hemmed and grommeted, costs about $175 if you do not require rush production (regular production takes up to 4 days) or air shipping. This is on heavy vinyl; some of our banners don't specify a date or time and will be used at their appropriate seasons for several years.

Many local sign companies, as well as Kinkos, can print smaller banners and it may be possible to use thinner vinyl or some other material that would cost less.

Howard White
09-27-2005, 03:59 PM
I can take credit/blame for Kirun's presence here, after relaying some of your thoughts to him over Internet Relay Chat (irc #scribus channel.)

Welcome; hope you will find this a useful place.

HW

ktinkel
09-28-2005, 06:03 AM
I've also attached a zoom-in on the g, because the sharp angle is one thing which always stands it out from suggested matches.The g should help.

Welcome to the forum. Hope we can help you with this.

Ian Petersen
09-28-2005, 07:32 AM
Looks suspiciously like Foundry Sans to me.

ktinkel
09-28-2005, 08:03 AM
The cost is almost exactly proportional to the size. (Some companies also charge according to the ink coverage, which I don't like.) A banner 12.5 feet by 3 feet, hemmed and grommeted, costs about $175 if you do not require rush production (regular production takes up to 4 days) or air shipping. This is on heavy vinyl; some of our banners don't specify a date or time and will be used at their appropriate seasons for several years.

Many local sign companies, as well as Kinkos, can print smaller banners and it may be possible to use thinner vinyl or some other material that would cost less.Thanks. I have wanted to make a banner for a while, but was thinking I would have to cut out and applique the pieces, so lost my ambition.

Wasn’t thinking sufficiently digitally, obviously!

Paul
10-01-2005, 05:18 PM
Just for information, here's a snapshot of the current banner in situ.

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 06:07 PM
Just for information, here's a snapshot of the current banner in situ.Nice. I do love the scale.

ktinkel
10-01-2005, 06:17 PM
Looks suspiciously like Foundry Sans to me.Really? I do not have a sufficiently large specimen to see, but the g looks different, as do the height of the crossbar on the e and the angle of the beginning of the arch of the h and n (and they seem wider in the sample here than in Foundry Sans. The a is close, but narrower in Foundry than in the sample.

But I do wish I had a better specimen — probably do, somewhere, but cannot find it. It is pretty close.

Ian Petersen
10-01-2005, 10:28 PM
Actually I haven't checked. When I saw the logo I immediately thought 'Foundry Sans' but I may well be wrong. The Foundry site only has some very lowres samples which don't really help much. They sometimes have an ad in 'Eye' magazine. Maybe I can find a better sample there.

Stephen Coles
10-03-2005, 02:04 AM
It is difficult to tell from their weak samples, but I think we are indeed looking at Foundry Sans (http://www.foundrytypes.co.uk/foundry_sans/images/text_examples/Text-FoundrySans1.gif).

Possible alternatives are Syntax (http://www.fontshop.com/showfont.cfm?fid=LH.415.0.0), Symphony (http://www.fontshop.com/showfont.cfm?fid=C.6517.0.0), Today (http://www.fontshop.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=verity.search&searchstr=today), or Cronos (http://www.fontshop.com/showfont.cfm?fid=LH.114165.0.0&searchby=searchresults) — all sans derived from an oldstyle serif model.

Ian Petersen
10-03-2005, 03:30 AM
Yes, Foundry is still the closest. It's definitely not any of the others.

Norman Hathaway
10-05-2005, 02:12 PM
Are you going to have one made for your 40th KT?

ktinkel
10-05-2005, 03:16 PM
Are you going to have one made for your 40th KT?I would be more like to make a banner than have it made, but probably not for that!

I just like banners. Something about the scale. I especially like an array of vertical ones that flutter. Not sure how I could arrange that, but like them anyway.

Norman Hathaway
10-05-2005, 04:28 PM
i used to be a sign dude when i was a youngin'.
could help if you ever wanted to take it further.

they make nice vertical banners for the royal academy of art in london.
canvas. not el grosso vinyl.